Anything wrong here?

[jennm]

That's where I was going - leaving fish in shipping water after the bag is opened causes a chemical reaction that makes the water very toxic. Slow acclimation in shipping water can cause more harm than good.

There's a big difference between water that has been in the bag for an hour or two, and water that has been in the bag with the fish for 24 hours or more. As the oxygen depletes and the fish defecates, the pH drops, which helps with the ammonia buildup - the higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes, so a lowered pH actually is helpful.

However once the bag is opened and the oxygen level comes back up, so does the pH and that ammonia suddenly becomes very toxic.

So yes, you can acclimate something right to death.

We observed pH as low as 6.8 in newly opened bags that had been in transit for 24 hours or so. The goal was to get the fish out of that ASAP after opening the bag, and we achieve that by using acid buffer to lower the pH in the acclimation system to something closer to that, and then drip the pH back up over the course of the next several hours - that way you get the fish OUT of the nasty water right away (discard that water, not put it in the acclimation system) but not shock the devil out of the fish with a huge pH swing.

Most hobbyists aren't set up for that - which is just one of the many reasons why buying out of the box is usually a bad idea.

Same can apply for buying online where there is a long shipping time - unless one is prepared to do a proper acclimation, involving getting the fish OUT of the gnarly water quickly, it ends up being a waste of life.

Jenn

 

[ectogamut]

I don't know if 45 minutes is slow. I thought it was fast and that anything faster would shock the fish. Fortunately, I wasn't acclimating them with my DT water w/ a pH of 8.2. My qt pH is somewhere around 7.5-7.6, so I'm hoping that wasn't a huge deal for them.

Now, the fish that is looking quite healthy now, he came in the shipping bag from the wholesaler. When I picked him up from the LFS, there were probably somewhere in the range of 100 bags floating in tanks. They obviously had gotten in a pretty large shipment that day. I'm not sure how long the one I have that isn't as healthy stayed in a bag before the LFS got around to releasing him into their tank. I think the bottom line here is that it's difficult to nail down exactly where the point of failure was, and it may have just been a combination of everything.

Today, the fish is a little more active than yesterday. Still breathing a bit heavy, but not nearly as bad as a few days ago. I haven't seen any stringy trails coming from the anus, and I've had the overhead lights on for a few hours now and he doesn't seem to be stressed by them. I did get some Prazipro, so I went ahead and dosed that. From what I've read, it seems like a pretty gentle treatment and good to do even if the fish don't have any internal infections. I'll see if I can get a video uploaded later to help everyone visualize what's going on.

 

[jennm]

Wait - your QT is currently 7.5-7.6? There might be your problem. It needs to be higher than that. 8.3 is 'ideal' but stable from 8 to 8.4 is better. pH tends to drop at night too - so if it's 7.5 during the day, who knows what it's dropping to at night.

Why is it so low? I'd be concerned about that. What are the rest of the parameters?

 

[ectogamut]

Sorry, no, I was mistaken. I was reading my test and thought the water was completely clear. Here's the test I took just a few minutes ago. Not sure if it shows up in the pic so well, but it's at least 8.0
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[ectogamut]

I think it's on the low side because it's a sterile qt, no LR or substrate.

 

[ectogamut]

To update what's happening, it appears that whatever it is, must be intestinal since I've seen both fish with white stringy poop. Both have a suppressed appetite and tend to hide away more and there seems to be no sign of external disease. No frayed fins, no real discoloration.

Both are still swimming, and eating, but just seem to rest a lot. The bigger of the two still breathes faster and rests with his head down. Going to give the prazipro a chance to work for the next few days and if I don't see improvement I may move on to metroplex.

 

[ectogamut]

Good news and bad news. The good news is that the smaller clown is quite healthy again. Unfortunately, the larger couldn't quite pull through. I was hopeful yesterday because he seemed to be perking up and swimming again, but this morning I found him upside down.

I wish I could've fully diagnosed and addressed his ailment, but I've learned more about the hobby and I have a larger pharmacy to treat potential patients now. Jenn, thank you for your help. I'm glad to have gotten to know you a bit through this process.

 

[jennm]

Unfortunate loss Glad one seems to be doing better though.

Happy to help - it's not all bad if there are lessons learned.

Trust me, I've had plenty of failures in this hobby, nobody 'only' has success - each is a learning experience.

Jenn

 

[ectogamut]

Thank you for the encouraging words. Now I can start to look forward to getting the stock into the dt in the next few weeks. The goby and damsel are fattening up nicely so I'm looking forward to introducing them to a more natural environment!

I had just finished ordering some Melafix this morning before I found the fish dead. I'm wondering if that would've helped his gill tissue heal up, but I now know that if the bag water looks sketchy, I need to expedite the acclimation period.

 

[jennm]

Cancel that order. Melafix is crap.