Best options to raise pH

[liverock27]

I am dosing two part and by dosing my Alkalinity through out the day(not at the same time as my Calcium) I have managed to keep my pH between 8.09 and 8.16(Apex pH probe).
These numbers are great, but I would really like to increase my pH closer to 8.3. What are the best options to increase my pH? Kalk Stirrer, CO2 Scrubber, etc?
Since I have an Apex I can set what ever I use to only dose/run when under 8.3 and shut off when it reaches 8.3.

Thanks in advance!



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[bhodges82]

Running my skimmer air line to the outside of my house is what worked for me. Super cheap too


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[liverock27]

Running my skimmer air line to the outside of my house is what worked for me. Super cheap too


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I was actually looking at that option last night when I was researching the CO2 Scrubber. My tank is between two windows so it is an option.


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[lshin037]

Thats about the same readings I get. Yesterday, my Apex read 8.16 but using a pocket PH meter (calibrated) and the Red Sea PH test, I got 8.35 on the ph meter and 8.3 on the Red Sea. I calibrated the apex ph probe twice the day before because the readings seemed low. The general advice from experienced people was not to chase it. So I just keep that mind and live with the "low" readings

 

[FutureInterest]

I think the three options are plumbing your skimmer to outside air, using kalk, and a CO2 scrubber. Of the three I think the CO2 scrubber is the most effective. I'm currently using Kalk that gets dosed every hour during the day and every 1/2 hour at night. My ph is around 8.1 typically. It does spike when I aerate the house so I've been thinking about outside air or a Co2 scrubber myself...

 

[liverock27]

Thats about the same readings I get. Yesterday, my Apex read 8.16 but using a pocket PH meter (calibrated) and the Red Sea PH test, I got 8.35 on the ph meter and 8.3 on the Red Sea. I calibrated the apex ph probe twice the day before because the readings seemed low. The general advice from experienced people was not to chase it. So I just keep that mind and live with the "low" readings

I’ll check with my pH tests to make sure. I just calibrated my pH probe.
I’ll also borrow a Hanna pH probe from my neighbor and check with it as well.


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[jcook54]

What's the goal of 8.3? Is there an issue you're trying to correct? My pH is always "low" and I decided years ago to not try and chase the number. I use an API test kit and it may not be the most accurate but I'm shooting more for stability that 8.3. According to my test, my pH is around 8.0 before the lights come on and it climbs to 8.1 throughout the day.

Edit: I've been in the exact same situation and decided to focus on other stuff.

 

[lshin037]

I think the three options are plumbing your skimmer to outside air, using kalk, and a CO2 scrubber. Of the three I think the CO2 scrubber is the most effective. I'm currently using Kalk that gets dosed every hour during the day and every 1/2 hour at night. My ph is around 8.1 typically. It does spike when I aerate the house so I've been thinking about outside air or a Co2 scrubber myself...

I was impressed with Adam's setup. I wish I can do the same but theres no way I can run a line from outside

 

[lshin037]

What's the goal of 8.3? Is there an issue you're trying to correct? My pH is always "low" and I decided years ago to not try and chase the number. I use an API test kit and it may not be the most accurate but I'm shooting more for stability that 8.3. According to my test, my pH is around 8.0 before the lights come on and it climbs to 8.1 throughout the day.

Edit: I've been in the exact same situation and decided to focus on other stuff.

I never tried upping my PH but I always do wonder if my corals would grow faster if my Ph was higher.

 

[liverock27]

What's the goal of 8.3? Is there an issue you're trying to correct? My pH is always "low" and I decided years ago to not try and chase the number. I use an API test kit and it may not be the most accurate but I'm shooting more for stability that 8.3. According to my test, my pH is around 8.0 before the lights come on and it climbs to 8.1 throughout the day.

Edit: I've been in the exact same situation and decided to focus on other stuff.

Watching ReefBuilder and BRS and reading some other articles there seems to be a direct correlation between SPS growth and higher pH. ReefBuilder is pushing pH up between 8.4 and 8.5, but most of the other information shows 8.3 as a good spot.


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[jcook54]

Here's my honest thoughts on pH. (Please keep in mind, there are others that are much better at growing SPS than I am.) I believe that I have MANY other things to look at for better SPS growth before I start worrying about pH. This is just me but here's my short list of items before I start to look into pH: 1. Overall stability(accurate dosing) 2. Better lighting (optimized wavelength over PAR) 3. Adequate lighting, in this case PAR. 4. Dosing nutrients for SPS. 5. Optimized nitrate/phosphate ratio.

This is specifically for my systems, of course, but I want to tackle some of these issues before I worry about my pH (as long as my pH is stable). Many of these points deal with lighting because I recently upgraded to LEDs and have been trying to learn and implement the best lighting output, quality and schedule that I can and there's a ton that goes in to it.

 

[liverock27]

Here's my honest thoughts on pH. (Please keep in mind, there are others that are much better at growing SPS than I am.) I believe that I have MANY other things to look at for better SPS growth before I start worrying about pH. This is just me but here's my short list of items before I start to look into pH: 1. Overall stability(accurate dosing) 2. Better lighting (optimized wavelength over PAR) 3. Adequate lighting, in this case PAR. 4. Dosing nutrients for SPS. 5. Optimized nitrate/phosphate ratio.

This is specifically for my systems, of course, but I want to tackle some of these issues before I worry about my pH (as long as my pH is stable). Many of these points deal with lighting because I recently upgraded to LEDs and have been trying to learn and implement the best lighting output, quality and schedule that I can and there's a ton that goes in to it.

100% agree with all of the above information and I too am looking at all of those plus flow.
I think lighting has become one of the easiest factors for us to control. Using the CoralLab reports(and other testing) give us a great idea of spectrum and then renting/borrowing a PAR meter allows us to dial in the height and intensity of your LEDs to hit that desired range for what ever corals you are keeping. I went with a LED/T5 Hybrid(Radion and 4 T5 Blue Plus bulbs) and couldn’t be happier. I have 200-350 PAR through out the tank and I attribute the even spread to the combo.


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[lshin037]

Here's my honest thoughts on pH. (Please keep in mind, there are others that are much better at growing SPS than I am.) I believe that I have MANY other things to look at for better SPS growth before I start worrying about pH. This is just me but here's my short list of items before I start to look into pH: 1. Overall stability(accurate dosing) 2. Better lighting (optimized wavelength over PAR) 3. Adequate lighting, in this case PAR. 4. Dosing nutrients for SPS. 5. Optimized nitrate/phosphate ratio.

This is specifically for my systems, of course, but I want to tackle some of these issues before I worry about my pH (as long as my pH is stable). Many of these points deal with lighting because I recently upgraded to LEDs and have been trying to learn and implement the best lighting output, quality and schedule that I can and there's a ton that goes in to it.

Amen! This hobby has been VERY challenging for me. I've kept a FOWLR before but this is a whole other level. My other hobby is working on my car, although not as much since this reefing thing is taking so much of my time. I've installed a supercharger, changed fuel systems, changed the suspension, not to mention all the things that break from the added power and modifications. But everything had an explanation. In this hobby (reefing), you can mimic the exact same procedures as someone and still come out with a different outcome and alot of times theres no explanation. I should've paid attention in chemistry class.

 

[hzheng33]

does anyone know the difference between running the airline to outside of the sump area (maybe above the tank canopy) vs running the airline to the outside? i don't think my wife would allow me to drill an airline through the windows/wall

 

[liverock27]

does anyone know the difference between running the airline to outside of the sump area (maybe above the tank canopy) vs running the airline to the outside? i don't think my wife would allow me to drill an airline through the windows/wall

To my understand...there is a build up of CO2 in your house due to everyone that lives in your house. Running the line outside allows you to bring in fresh air. Taking the line out of the cabinet might have some effect, but I don’t know if it would be that much.


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[lshin037]

To my understand...there is a build up of CO2 in your house due to everyone that lives in your house. Running the line outside allows you to bring in fresh air. Taking the line out of the cabinet might have some effect, but I don’t know if it would be that much.


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This is what I read as well. I thought about using a piece of plywood or thick acrylic, drill a small hole enough to fit a line, and wedge it between my sliding window and frame. But I live in a townhome and there's no telling when the lawn or pesticide people will spray their chemicals. Some people run their line through a reactor with carbon for that purpose but I decided its way too much work and just live with what I have.

 

[bhodges82]

does anyone know the difference between running the airline to outside of the sump area (maybe above the tank canopy) vs running the airline to the outside? i don't think my wife would allow me to drill an airline through the windows/wall

Co2 builds up in the house via people breathing, dogs/pets breathing, gas burners on stove, etc.; pulling in air from the outside of the house dramatically decreases co2 levels being injected into the water column via protein skimmer. A well insulated house is efficient at storing co2 gas.


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[Adam]

My entire system is in my basement. I've done every thing possible to try and raise ph. Hui, if your sump is in the basement (Don't know if you ever did that or not) then running a line outside is a lot easier.

I've found taking a multi pronged approach to work the best. With the airline this is what works from best to worst. CO2 scrubber -> Outside airline -> Opening a window near the tank -> raising the intake line to a higher point in the room -> doing nothing. My skimmer doesn't have vent holes in the lid so it allows me to run a closed loop airline through a scrubber. This really increases the life of the media by not having to scrub the higher co2 air from the house and just pulls the co2 from the tank water. Also due to the nature of skimmers it's getting really humid air to keep the media from drying out. To do this you'd need to have a skimmate locker and seal the lid of the scrubber. Anyone that would like to see my setup is welcome to come by.

Running an ATS has a positive impact on ph. Depending on the size and photo period the effect will vary.

If your running 2-part, changing out the Alk component from Soda Ash to Sodium Hydroxide will do wonders. You will need an accurate scale to be able to mix it up and be careful when actually mixing it. It gets really hot and will melt through plastic. Even in a glass container it will burn/caramelize itself if added too fast to the water. 283 grams per gallon is the same ALK equivalent as 2 cups of soda ash per gallon. But the ph is in the mid teens, 14-16 depending on the ph of the source water. As such it needs to be dosed with a doser and not manually with larger amounts as it will spike your ph.
Here's Randy Holmes-Farley's recipe. And here's a source for where I buy it from.

Before I started running a CARX and was dosing 2-part my ph was 8.2-8.3. But this was with all of the above running. Since everyone systems are different results will vary. But I'd say I'm on the lower end of the scale and most would see better results. I also did all of my ALK dosing at night, from 9pm to 7am and CAL during the day from 9am to 7pm. I had better overall results vs dosing over 24hrs a day. As stated above, I don't chase the number but see what the changes I've made have from week to week. I've also found my ph probe on the Apex will start to read higher than actual over time. Calibrating a double junction quarterly helps a lot with getting a false high reading.

My next project is making a kalk stirrer from an old reactor. It will be dosed via controlled amounts using my DOS now that it's not being used for 2-part. I'm really looking forward to getting a Trident when they finally come out. Then I'll be able to dial everything in without so much manual testing.

 

[schwaggs]

I've battled low pH for years, mostly due to use of a CA reactor.

I piped the skimmer air intake outdoors and did not find much improvement. Airing out the area around my tank will raise the pH so I think there must be some small benefit in doing so but I can't really measure.

Huge benefit in running all your top-off through a kalk reactor. I can keep the pH of my 400 gallon system right at 8.3 with about 1.5 minutes of kalkwasser dosing every 10 minutes during the lights-off period using an aqualifter (not very fast).

 

[liverock27]

I've battled low pH for years, mostly due to use of a CA reactor.

I piped the skimmer air intake outdoors and did not find much improvement. Airing out the area around my tank will raise the pH so I think there must be some small benefit in doing so but I can't really measure.

Huge benefit in running all your top-off through a kalk reactor. I can keep the pH of my 400 gallon system right at 8.3 with about 1.5 minutes of kalkwasser dosing every 10 minutes during the lights-off period using an aqualifter (not very fast).

A Kalk Stirrer was my first thought when it came to raising my pH, but after talking to a few people I got a lot of push back on it due to being able to over dose Kalk pretty easily.
I had thought about running a doing pump(BRS, Drew, or Avast) off of my Apex controller and having the Kalk Stirrer dose based on pH. I asked over on the Neptune forum for coding help and the mods there suggested against doing this type of setup.
This is when I started looking into the CO2 Scrubber.


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