Best options to raise pH

[liverock27]

I had remembered this setup that BRS discussed a while back, but it took me a little while to find the video.
I am thinking about doing the same thing and using the Apex to open and close the valve based on pH.


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[hzheng33]

so recently (Feb to now), i switched my 2-part alk to soda ash, up the dosage and frequency, and resulted in a change my pH.

first pic is before soda ash and 2nd pic is with soda ash. you can see where i dose soda ash based on the spikes. my tank has not seen any negative impact to the change of alk supplement and sudden spikes in pH. hopefully this is ok for now until after my revamp of the tank.

 

[lshin037]

so recently (Feb to now), i switched my 2-part alk to soda ash, up the dosage and frequency, and resulted in a change my pH.

first pic is before soda ash and 2nd pic is with soda ash. you can see where i dose soda ash based on the spikes. my tank has not seen any negative impact to the change of alk supplement and sudden spikes in pH. hopefully this is ok for now until after my revamp of the tank.


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You may want to try sodium hydroxide (lye) as Adam mentioned. That’s what I’m using. Most folks that use it saw a nice increase in PH. My apex Probe reads low. It reads 8.08-8.16 but my calibrated Ph pen meter and Red Sea Ph test gives me 8.3-8.35. If you do use it, I recommend using gloves, eye protection, and a mask unless you work with it outside. And definitely keep it well secured so your kid has 0 chances of getting to it.


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[Adam]

so recently (Feb to now), i switched my 2-part alk to soda ash, up the dosage and frequency, and resulted in a change my pH.

first pic is before soda ash and 2nd pic is with soda ash. you can see where i dose soda ash based on the spikes. my tank has not seen any negative impact to the change of alk supplement and sudden spikes in pH. hopefully this is ok for now until after my revamp of the tank.

It looks like you're dosing the Alk during the day. Night time is when there are more people in the house so co2 is higher in the home. If you dose it at night it will keep the pH up during the time there is no photosynthesis and the co2 is higher in the air. Also if you increase the number of doses using a smaller amount per dose over the same time frame there will be less spiking after they are added. Another thing to look at with the spike is, if you're pH probe is down stream of the point you add the doses it's a local spike in the sump and nowhere near as high in the DT.

And yes, switching from Soda Ash to Sodium Hydroxide will have an even greater effect on the pH, at least .1 to .15 in the system.
I know saturated Kalk, at around 12 pH, is higher than the Soda Ash solution. I think SA is around 10 pH but I don't know for sure. SH is 14-16.

You may want to try sodium hydroxide (lye) as Adam mentioned. That’s what I’m using. Most folks that use it saw a nice increase in PH. My apex Probe reads low. It reads 8.08-8.16 but my calibrated Ph pen meter and Red Sea Ph test gives me 8.3-8.35. If you do use it, I recommend using gloves, eye protection, and a mask unless you work with it outside. And definitely keep it well secured so your kid has 0 chances of getting to it./QUOTE]

I've found with my system that the pH probe on my Apex drifts higher over time and not lower. I wonder what would cause a lowering drift?
If you calibrate the pH probe and once complete keep the probe in the 10.0 pH solution and the probe reads 10 or 9.99 and then rinse it and put it in 7.0 solution and see what it reads there. If it's within +/- .02 I'd trust the Apex over the Pen. You can do that with the Pen too. If either probe doesn't read right or hold the calibration it needs to be replaced.

When I put in my CARX I attached a second probe to a PM1 and calibrated both probes at the same time. They we're within .01 of each other and stayed that way even with the 2nd probe in the reactor for several days before I turned on the co2. The second probe was calibrated with 4 & 7 standards vs the 7 & 10 for the tank's probe.[

 

[hzheng33]

adam,

for alk/soda ashing dosing during night time, i thought you need alk during photosynthesis which happens during daytime.

as for the location of the probe vs dosing tubes, i have mine tubes near the drain area and the probe in the next chamber next to the skimmer. maybe i should place the probe near the return pump chamber to avoid spikes.

 

[FutureInterest]

I think I remember reading that alk is absorbed more during the late afternoon/evening. Oddly enough...

 

[Adam]

adam,

for alk/soda ashing dosing during night time, i thought you need alk during photosynthesis which happens during daytime.

as for the location of the probe vs dosing tubes, i have mine tubes near the drain area and the probe in the next chamber next to the skimmer. maybe i should place the probe near the return pump chamber to avoid spikes.

The large spikes aren't bad per say. They're just a visual on the graph and not representative of what's happening in the DT. If they annoy you then move the tubes.

I've seen the same thing Jin is saying. But if the system still holds your minimum target during the day there's still plenty of Alk in there. The benefit of dosing it at night is the more stable pH over 24hrs and it will raise the valley you see on the graph. If tuned right you can keep the daily 24hr swing at or under 0.1

 

[hzheng33]

The large spikes aren't bad per say. They're just a visual on the graph and not representative of what's happening in the DT. If they annoy you then move the tubes.

I've seen the same thing Jin is saying. But if the system still holds your minimum target during the day there's still plenty of Alk in there. The benefit of dosing it at night is the more stable pH over 24hrs and it will raise the valley you see on the graph. If tuned right you can keep the daily 24hr swing at or under 0.1

Gotcha, I will try to dose a little at night time to see if it helps.

 

[Adam]

When I setup my diy kalk stirrer I will be dosing it at night.

The 90 day limit on the Apex graphs doesn't go back to before I had the CARX online. Right before then I hit pH nirvana. 8.2-8.28 was my daily swing. Alk 9.0-9.5 Cal 420-430 Mag 1400 were my numbers at the time.

There is a guy I help out who has his system in a basement and his pH is always perfect. But he has a whole house air exchanger... this will be something I put in the new house when we move.

 

[lshin037]

I think I remember reading that alk is absorbed more during the late afternoon/evening. Oddly enough...

I read this too on r2r. They were owners of the KH director (or guardian) and they stated that alk consumption was high a few hours before lights out and a few hours after. Zero consumption from 12 am to like 9 am.


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[Adam]

I read this too on r2r. They were owners of the KH director (or guardian) and they stated that alk consumption was high a few hours before lights out and a few hours after. Zero consumption from 12 am to like 9 am.


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Man, I can't wait for the Trident!!!

 

[lshin037]

Man, I can't wait for the Trident!!!

Seneye is supposed to come out with an alk checker for $200. This news was from 2017 and its up on their website under upcoming stuff. I guess this sort of monitoring equipment takes alot of R&D and tests since both Seneye and Neptune has been slow in releasing them. Theres the Reefbot but that uses the reagents from the various tests kits that are available and commonly used.

 

[Adam]

Seneye is supposed to come out with an alk checker for $200. This news was from 2017 and its up on their website under upcoming stuff. I guess this sort of monitoring equipment takes alot of R&D and tests since both Seneye and Neptune has been slow in releasing them. Theres the Reefbot but that uses the reagents from the various tests kits that are available and commonly used.

I've looked at the Reefbot. From what I see it can't do any powdered reagent tests, liquid only. So the Salifert Mag, Red Sea Nitrate and Calcium "Pro" tests are out. That makes it a no go for me.

 

[lshin037]

The trident looks good but it's $$$$$. $600 for the unit, a super accurate dosing pump for probably $200-$300, and $800 for the new Apex since it wont work with the classic. The old saying about the two things certain in life being death and taxes needs an addition: pay to play

 

[Adam]

The trident looks good but it's $$$$$. $600 for the unit, a super accurate dosing pump for probably $200-$300, and $800 for the new Apex since it wont work with the classic. The old saying about the two things certain in life being death and taxes needs an addition: pay to play

The Seneye is $600 for the 1st year then $120 a year there after, if you keep buying slides. It doesn't control anything and right now only shows pH & Ammonia along with a light meter. When/If they come out with any other tests the cost will go up more. I already have an Apex 2016 and a DOS, I'll will gladly pay $600 for the Trident. If my system were smaller I don't know if I'd be so quick to drop the coin though.

 

[sharis100]

So Michael Hall of Aqua Digital and Seneye will be bringing new spectra seneye to MACNA 2019 in Disney supposedly this year. They also have a planted CO2 tank version that might be there. Then, the DK version for coral reefs will be developed - so probably not coming this year, maybe in 2020....‍

 

[Adam]

The one area I could see getting a Seneye is a fish store or breeder that was going to be QT'ing fish constantly.

 

[schwaggs]

I think and air exchanger will help immensely based on the change I see in pH when airing out my fishroom. The jump in pH is dramatic.

With some common sense, running your topoff through a kalk reactor isn't as risky as some people have been leading you to believe. Additionally, the Apex will notify you if things are going sideways. Your programming needs to provide some safety controls and some administration limits. If you are interested, I can post some suggested programming and tips.

 

[liverock27]

I think and air exchanger will help immensely based on the change I see in pH when airing out my fishroom. The jump in pH is dramatic.

With some common sense, running your topoff through a kalk reactor isn't as risky as some people have been leading you to believe. Additionally, the Apex will notify you if things are going sideways. Your programming needs to provide some safety controls and some administration limits. If you are interested, I can post some suggested programming and tips.

That would be great and thank you.
The biggest conference with top off running through a Kalk Stirrer is the fact I am using one of the Neptune ATKs and it puts out a lot of water and fast.
I thought about running a separate small pump(BRS Dosing pump or similar) that would send water from my ATO through the Kalk Stirrer if the pH dropped and when it was running have code in place to keep the ATK from running.


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[kimxd]

IMHO, do not chase numbers. If your tank is doing well with 7.8pH (as an example), than there is no reason to chase 8.3. Sometimes you might end up cause more harm than good. Good luck!