mysterybox;114416 wrote: I'm just trying to give you some help, so if you could be a little "open minded" about what you have posted already.
Not sure what this is in reference to in my previous post, but I was just answering your questions with my own commentary.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: So hear me out, please.......................................
Well I was listening and answering your questions. I don't think you actually made a point that I refuted. You asked questions I answered them to the best of my ability. So.... please... don't get in a huff.... I will hear you out.... really.... I am listening. Make your points. I may not agree with them, but don't take it personal.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: What I am saying is that you are low on calc, but if your test kit is way off, too, then you might be at 280. If your alk is off, your phosphates are high, your nitrates are high, your ph a little ow, your temp on the border then RTN!
This can be true depending on the situation you are highlighting, but I checked against two tests and I ran each test twice making it four seperate readings. Danny was by today and backed up my readings with the exception of alk which was even lower but I haven't dosed anything since the last reading so it is to be expected.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: I realize that calc at 350 isn't going to rtn your tort, however, Salifert test kits have been way off the mark. Seachem, too.
I calibrate any new tests to my previous tests and I get independant tests done by others. Plus if it was one of my tests and my alk was 2dkh more than one coral would have RTN'd.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: I had 2 Salifert alk kits that measured the same sample at 10.2 and 12.8. Then Habib sent me a kit with a reference solution that measured totally different. That measured the 6.5 reference solution at 7.0. So that's fine for a while until the same kit measures the same reference solution a month later at 7.8! I always disliked API due to the lack of consistent results with nitrates, phosphates, ammonia, but that's what I use now for Alk. I have my water tested by AWT monthly for 22 bucks due to Salifert. This way, I get a little independent check. When Salifert measures my calcium at 420, AWT measures it at about 340. I realize that their will be precipitation in the mailing, but it shouldn't be that much.
I think three tests done by two people using three kits is enough of a cross reference. If more than one coral was in distress, I would be far more skeptical of my readings. My other corals are doing very well some outstanding.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: Phosphates in the water column shouldn't be no more than 0.024. Like I said, only DD merk, Hach, Elos, & colormeter will measure that low. Twice now, phosphates have wreaked havoc on my tank. I was told it was my lights, my flow, my alk, my calc, whatever, it was phosphates at over 0.024. Nitrates shouldn't be high either.
Phosphates could be in the water column but neither test kicked out a measurable level. You are correct that I could have phosphates but they are likely too low to be a bother. Plus it likely takes a pretty high concentration of phosphates to cause an acro to RTN/bleach overnight. Nitrates are fine in the tank again compared to three seperate tests.
mysterybox;114416 wrote: There are relatively few tropical coral reefs that are in the 70's except perhaps slightly more subtropical ones during winter or those that happen to exist in areas of persistent upwelling or colder currents. Few of the animals, especially corals, are collected from these areas. Temperatures on the reefs where are animals are collected are generally always above 80 and generally below 88. Daily swings of from 0-12 degrees F are not uncommon and can happen several times a day. Temperature is truly not one of the things to worry about in tanks unless you can say what strains of zooxanthellae are present, where the corals were collected from, what species (and thus their environmental sensitivity), synergistic stresses (as corals do well near their upper thermal limits) and to ensure that temperatures do not exceed, say, 90F for extended periods of time. A swing from mid70's to 90 (for example, a heater malfunction) that lasts for a day will probably cause problems for some animals if they are acclimated to a constant temperature.
Temp is rarely the cause of these problems unless there was a massive shift and your own quote shows it. I had no temp shift (measured by two recording instruments and one visible mercury therm).
mysterybox;114416 wrote: that pushing temps to the upper limit where they might be happiest in the wild may not be ideal in tanks. So, I think 82-84 is right where you have some safety margin in upper thermal limits and within the range where most tropical reef corals and those collected for the trade do best.
First, the region my reef is modeled after really does have 77 degree oceans this time of year. Second, lower temps means slower metabolisms which generally mean things can't go wrong as quickly. The higher the temp the faster things tend to happen. Lastly on my list, it is usually a temp swing that is the problem and according to at least two measurements that didn't happen (one in the sump and one in the main display). This coral has been sitting in 77 degree water for over a year with no problems.
I have read the research on temps and have looked up the standing temps in a variety of regions for December and I run with the one that makes the most sense to me. My tank varies from 76.5 in the winter to 79 in the summer. Regardless of your opinion on target temperature, that number is very acceptable in a tank.
I am not trying to be argumentative or beligerent here. I am just pointing out my own opinions on these subjects. I don't believe it is a failure to test an obvious param. I personally think it is a toxin or disease... possible a bacteria.
