Bryopsis solution verified
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Jenn, I was reading in another forum that it might be the sulfate that the bryopsis can't handle. Do you know if epsom salt will generate any ammonia? I ,m thinking about trying it since it is a sulfate.
I'll have to look when I get to work... I want to say that the Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium is a combination of Magnesium Sulfate and other stuff (I have to check with Brian he has all kinds of notes on that).
Not all list their ingredients - but I'll have a look.
The Seachem product resembles Epsom Salt but I believe it has other compounds added to it - I'm always leery about "household" products whose intended purpose is different from an aquarium application. It might be OK, it might not - so I'm not going to venture to guess on that one.
Jenn
Not all list their ingredients - but I'll have a look.
The Seachem product resembles Epsom Salt but I believe it has other compounds added to it - I'm always leery about "household" products whose intended purpose is different from an aquarium application. It might be OK, it might not - so I'm not going to venture to guess on that one.
Jenn
OK, I'm at work.
Kent Tech M: Ingredients: Deionized water, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate.
Dosage suggests 1 ml per gallon each day to bring the level to 1250-1350 ppm. As routine supplement, use 2 tsp per 50 gallons each week. So a 16 oz (473 ml bottle) at a routine dosing rate would be... 2 tsp = 10 ml... 473 ml bottle. I believe that comes out to the 16 oz bottle would treat 1182.5 gallons at the routine dosing (somebody check my math on that - I'm not sufficiently caffeinated yet.
OR at 1 ml per gallon per day, it would treat 473 gallons, using the other method (and for that one should be testing). So using that - on a 75-gallon tank, you'd use it up in less than a week (6.3 days). That's the average size bottle that's seen in the original post.
Brightwell Magnesion: Ingredients: Purified Water, Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride. Guaranteed Analysis Magnesium 2,959 mg/oz or 100,000 PPM.
Dosage suggests 5 ml (one tsp) per 30 US galllons every other day or as needed to maintain magnesium concentration within a range of 1290-1320. When used in this fashion, 250 ml treats up to 1000 US gallons (it's a 500 ml bottle, so multiply that by 2 to compare apples and apples) - 500 ml treats 2000 gallons, according to the package. Not sure which dosing method that number applies to.
So that one is a bit more concentrated, the types of MG listed are inverse to the Kent product (higher proportion of MG Sulfate to Chloride).
Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium: 600g Jar...
Ingredients: Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Chloride. There is no water in this product as it is a dry crystallized form.
Directions: Use 5 g (1 tsp) per 20 gallons twice a week. Dissolve in at least 250 ml (one cup) of fresh water. It also has "advanced" and "expert" directions to follow if one is testing. Expert uses a drip system. 600 g treats 2400 gallons of water according to the package. Again - not sure what dosing method they used to arrive at the packaging statement.
It's a bit hard to compare with the Kent as the packaging does not state that X ml treats Y gallons so if somebody checks/corrects my math on that, I won't be upset.
So all three products contain Magnesium Sulfate. IF it's the sulfate that's the solution to the problem, theoretically all three products should work. If it's the Magnesium Chloride that does it - then the Kent product would be the preferred one, I think because it has the higher proportion of Magnesium Chloride versus Brightwell, and Seachem has none in that product.
I don't have any Aquavitro Ions in right now (I will tomorrow) to compare it...
Jenn
Kent Tech M: Ingredients: Deionized water, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate.
Dosage suggests 1 ml per gallon each day to bring the level to 1250-1350 ppm. As routine supplement, use 2 tsp per 50 gallons each week. So a 16 oz (473 ml bottle) at a routine dosing rate would be... 2 tsp = 10 ml... 473 ml bottle. I believe that comes out to the 16 oz bottle would treat 1182.5 gallons at the routine dosing (somebody check my math on that - I'm not sufficiently caffeinated yet.
OR at 1 ml per gallon per day, it would treat 473 gallons, using the other method (and for that one should be testing). So using that - on a 75-gallon tank, you'd use it up in less than a week (6.3 days). That's the average size bottle that's seen in the original post.
Brightwell Magnesion: Ingredients: Purified Water, Magnesium Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride. Guaranteed Analysis Magnesium 2,959 mg/oz or 100,000 PPM.
Dosage suggests 5 ml (one tsp) per 30 US galllons every other day or as needed to maintain magnesium concentration within a range of 1290-1320. When used in this fashion, 250 ml treats up to 1000 US gallons (it's a 500 ml bottle, so multiply that by 2 to compare apples and apples) - 500 ml treats 2000 gallons, according to the package. Not sure which dosing method that number applies to.
So that one is a bit more concentrated, the types of MG listed are inverse to the Kent product (higher proportion of MG Sulfate to Chloride).
Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium: 600g Jar...
Ingredients: Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Chloride. There is no water in this product as it is a dry crystallized form.
Directions: Use 5 g (1 tsp) per 20 gallons twice a week. Dissolve in at least 250 ml (one cup) of fresh water. It also has "advanced" and "expert" directions to follow if one is testing. Expert uses a drip system. 600 g treats 2400 gallons of water according to the package. Again - not sure what dosing method they used to arrive at the packaging statement.
It's a bit hard to compare with the Kent as the packaging does not state that X ml treats Y gallons so if somebody checks/corrects my math on that, I won't be upset.
So all three products contain Magnesium Sulfate. IF it's the sulfate that's the solution to the problem, theoretically all three products should work. If it's the Magnesium Chloride that does it - then the Kent product would be the preferred one, I think because it has the higher proportion of Magnesium Chloride versus Brightwell, and Seachem has none in that product.
I don't have any Aquavitro Ions in right now (I will tomorrow) to compare it...
Jenn
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Thanks Jen
I have some bryopsis in another tank I may try some experiments with the different types of mag. I need to find about 4 5 to 10 gallon tanks for the study. Jenn I may call you for ideas on how to set it up.
I have some bryopsis in another tank I may try some experiments with the different types of mag. I need to find about 4 5 to 10 gallon tanks for the study. Jenn I may call you for ideas on how to set it up.
I'm interested in the findings too.There was a huge thread on this a while back on reefcentral. Ever wonder why the Tech M works and no other mag suppliment does?
it has trace amounts of copper in it. not much but when used to overdose your mag to 1500-1800 levels its enough to effect algea.
So be careful with it and keep a close eye on your livestock while doing it.
it has trace amounts of copper in it. not much but when used to overdose your mag to 1500-1800 levels its enough to effect algea.
So be careful with it and keep a close eye on your livestock while doing it.
I'm too busy at the moment to recalculate Jenn's numbers, but based on the dosage instructions on the back of the Tech M bottle, I would need approx 4gallons of Tech M to raise my 800g system from 1400 to 1800ppm, so I bought 4 gallons. At the time, I wasn't sure if it'd work, so didn't see the point in buying a ton of it - only what would be needed to reach the recommended dosage amount per the RC threads.
So... my conclusions (completely unscientific):
- Adding MgCl in dry form up to 1800ppm didn't seem to have any effect, even after 6 months. I used http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Calcium,-Alkalinity-&-Magnesium-Magnesium/c1_4/p13/Five-Gallons-%2835-pounds-%29-of-Crystalline-Magnesium-Chloride/product_info.html">MgCl from bulkreefsupply.com</a>
- Adding Kent Tech M to the existing tank water (already at a high level of Mg, but unknown) killed the bryopsis. It took around 2gallons Tech M / 800gal system water to see the effects, but it's possible that the effect would have happened sonner if I had stopped dosing.
Therefore, we can conclude that:
- MgCl alone won't kill bryopsis
- Tech M will, which leaves MgSO4 as a possibility, or a byproduct of the manufacturing of Tech M
I think it'd be interest to see if [IMG]http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Calcium,-Alkalinity-&-Magnesium-Magnesium/c1_4/p15/One-Gallon-%288-pounds-%29-of-Magnesium-Sulfate/product_info.html">bulk MgSO4 </a>would have any effect...
So... my conclusions (completely unscientific):
- Adding MgCl in dry form up to 1800ppm didn't seem to have any effect, even after 6 months. I used http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Calcium,-Alkalinity-&-Magnesium-Magnesium/c1_4/p13/Five-Gallons-%2835-pounds-%29-of-Crystalline-Magnesium-Chloride/product_info.html">MgCl from bulkreefsupply.com</a>
- Adding Kent Tech M to the existing tank water (already at a high level of Mg, but unknown) killed the bryopsis. It took around 2gallons Tech M / 800gal system water to see the effects, but it's possible that the effect would have happened sonner if I had stopped dosing.
Therefore, we can conclude that:
- MgCl alone won't kill bryopsis
- Tech M will, which leaves MgSO4 as a possibility, or a byproduct of the manufacturing of Tech M
I think it'd be interest to see if [IMG]http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Calcium,-Alkalinity-&-Magnesium-Magnesium/c1_4/p15/One-Gallon-%288-pounds-%29-of-Magnesium-Sulfate/product_info.html">bulk MgSO4 </a>would have any effect...
I'm leaning toward the sulfate being the "cure" not copper. I'm not positive about that of course, but copper itself doesn't tend to kill aquarium plants (freshwater). Algae are algae and plants are plants, so I could be comparing guns & butter there...
I'm interested though to see *how* it works...
Jenn
I'm interested though to see *how* it works...
Jenn
The Mg I mix up from BRS is comprised of Mg Sulfate and Mg Chloride and RODI water..
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There were instances that the sessile invertabrates were killed in the dosing process which was probably from the high copper levels. But still not sure the copper killed the bryopsis
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Upon further research. went back to my farming days and dicovered that we were using copper sulfate to eradicate algae in our lakes . Will try to obtain more info and hope you guys can help me think through it.
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Bravo. Glad it worked out for yah.
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I started my Tech-M treatment about 3 weeks ago and am having mixed results.
Starting tank parameters:
500 Gallon total water volume.
1275 mg/l Magnesium starting point
CA 380
Alk 3.0 meq/l
SG 1.025
All inhabitant corals and inverts doing fine.
Hair Algae types: Bryopsis and Derbesia varieties.
I bumped up my CA reactor to raise my CA and Alk (normal periodic adjustment to keep CA ~400 and Alk ~4 meq/l)
Procedure:
Add 3-4 cups of Kent Tech-M each day for until I administered 2 gallons (over a 9 day period)
Ending tank parameters:
1410 mg/l Magnesium starting point
CA 400
Alk 4.1 meq/l
SG 1.025
Observations: (after 3 elapsed weeks since start)
All HA in high light areas of the system completely dissolved (this started early in the process). HA in low light areas (holding tanks with NO T-5 lighting) appears unaffected.
Tech-M has a grey tint to it and it temporarily raises pH several hundredths (.05 to .06). The Magnesium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate I have used in the past did not have this grey color to it but I never mixed them up in the concentration in Tech-M so I can't be sure if the grey color is normal or is caused by impurities.
WATCH YOUR SALINITY - the SG of my system crept above 1.025 (almost 1.026) while adding the Tech-M, I needed to add more fresh water (raising the level in my sump) to keep the SG at 1.025.
Negative impacts on coral -
Each of the corals listed below has bleached. They have not totally bleached white rather they have faded to less than half their normal color levels. Mushrooms are much smaller than normal and seem irritated.
Pipe organ (Tubipora musica)
3 colonies of Anchor (Euphyllia ancora)
Bright green Pocillopora
4 different colonies of Acans
Orange Pavona
Cabbage Leather (Sinularia dura)
Negative impacts on inverts -
RBTA anemone is smaller than normal and seems irritated. Color is normal.
Not impacted -
Snails
Crabs (blue leg, mythrax, arrow)
Various Zooanthids
Blastomussa
Lobophilia
Several acropora
Several montipora
Several millipora
I am going to perform a 20% water change to bring my Mg levels down to normal (not that 1400 is that high) see if these negative impacts reverse.
Starting tank parameters:
500 Gallon total water volume.
1275 mg/l Magnesium starting point
CA 380
Alk 3.0 meq/l
SG 1.025
All inhabitant corals and inverts doing fine.
Hair Algae types: Bryopsis and Derbesia varieties.
I bumped up my CA reactor to raise my CA and Alk (normal periodic adjustment to keep CA ~400 and Alk ~4 meq/l)
Procedure:
Add 3-4 cups of Kent Tech-M each day for until I administered 2 gallons (over a 9 day period)
Ending tank parameters:
1410 mg/l Magnesium starting point
CA 400
Alk 4.1 meq/l
SG 1.025
Observations: (after 3 elapsed weeks since start)
All HA in high light areas of the system completely dissolved (this started early in the process). HA in low light areas (holding tanks with NO T-5 lighting) appears unaffected.
Tech-M has a grey tint to it and it temporarily raises pH several hundredths (.05 to .06). The Magnesium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate I have used in the past did not have this grey color to it but I never mixed them up in the concentration in Tech-M so I can't be sure if the grey color is normal or is caused by impurities.
WATCH YOUR SALINITY - the SG of my system crept above 1.025 (almost 1.026) while adding the Tech-M, I needed to add more fresh water (raising the level in my sump) to keep the SG at 1.025.
Negative impacts on coral -
Each of the corals listed below has bleached. They have not totally bleached white rather they have faded to less than half their normal color levels. Mushrooms are much smaller than normal and seem irritated.
Pipe organ (Tubipora musica)
3 colonies of Anchor (Euphyllia ancora)
Bright green Pocillopora
4 different colonies of Acans
Orange Pavona
Cabbage Leather (Sinularia dura)
Negative impacts on inverts -
RBTA anemone is smaller than normal and seems irritated. Color is normal.
Not impacted -
Snails
Crabs (blue leg, mythrax, arrow)
Various Zooanthids
Blastomussa
Lobophilia
Several acropora
Several montipora
Several millipora
I am going to perform a 20% water change to bring my Mg levels down to normal (not that 1400 is that high) see if these negative impacts reverse.
I too had problems with some of my corals losing color- "deep water" acro, some of my monti's and a couple other corals are still looking less vivid than before. I attributed it to a rise in nitrates or phosphates caused by dieoff from the bryopsis, but it could very easily be the Tech-M as well. Either way, I was willing to lose a couple corals in the process if it meant getting rid of the bryopsis.
It was about 2-3 weeks before I started seeing any effects from the Tech-M. I'm not sure if there's a certain amount of time that must pass or the fact that I was going slow. And I don't know if it only affects Bryopsis plumosa and not other species.
Keep us up to date.
It was about 2-3 weeks before I started seeing any effects from the Tech-M. I'm not sure if there's a certain amount of time that must pass or the fact that I was going slow. And I don't know if it only affects Bryopsis plumosa and not other species.
Keep us up to date.
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Chris,
I had a couple varieties of HA and the process knocked them both out in the areas with high intensity lighting. Did you have any HA in lower lit areas?
My Anchor and frogspawn lost a lot of color and the heads of the anchor are not expanding nearly as far as there were before treatment began. I am going to keep going with the treatment (I am not adding any more Tech M at this time) to see if it impacts the HA in my lower lit tanks. I hope my Acans and RBTA can make it through.
I had a couple varieties of HA and the process knocked them both out in the areas with high intensity lighting. Did you have any HA in lower lit areas?
My Anchor and frogspawn lost a lot of color and the heads of the anchor are not expanding nearly as far as there were before treatment began. I am going to keep going with the treatment (I am not adding any more Tech M at this time) to see if it impacts the HA in my lower lit tanks. I hope my Acans and RBTA can make it through.
