Cannot figure out what’s wrong

[popsbjd]

So what temperature would you recommend? And how long of a time period should I drop it? Also I still don’t understand why my parameters are unstable. I did take a sample to Pure Reef and it confirmed my results. I use Hanna checkers for dKH, PO4 and pH, handheld refractometer for specific gravity, Seachem kits for Ca+ and Mg+ which were recommended by Pure Reef and Seachem test for NO3

Most all parameters fluctuate throughout the day. People run their refugia on opposite light schedules to stabilize pH as the photosynthesizing algae will help stabilize pH. dKh, calcium, magnesium are used up by corals to varying degrees depending on coral type and the amount of coral. PO4, NO3 are influenced by bioload of the tank and the food you are using. The most important things would be to test at a consistent time and one a consistent schedule (both of which I admit I'm terrible at doing). Once you determine your normal dKh, alk, mag consumption, you can work on a dosing schedule to maintain those parameters. That schedule could be as simple as small more frequent water changes. That would also help keep PO4 and NO3 in a range you want.

 

[timeconsumer]

LET Lighting T5 HO kit from BRS. 4 bulbs, 60” on 72” tank spread out front to back over 16” with a moonlight LED that comes on at 0600 and goes off at 2355. Blues (T5) go on at 8am now and off at 9pm and coral plus go on at 9 am and off at 7pm. They have more of a full spectrum so I don’t keep them on as long. I’ve worked up to that schedule over the past few weeks. I have been running supplemental T5 lighting for almost the entire time I’ve had the tank so it shouldn’t be too much of a shock to their system. We really didn’t want to use the chemicals an but the red cyano was so out of control it was killing everything and water changes and brushing and sucking it out just wasn’t working at all

Yeah no worries I wasn't thinking lighting "shock" or anything of the sort, I was actually concerned of a possible underlighting scenario but this bulb and ballast combo looks fine to me for your purposes. Carry on.

 

[Steve Burton]

She said she's dosing 2 ml. each of ATI 2-part every other hour, sounds like a doser to me.

 

[ActiveAngel]

She said she's dosing 2 ml. each of ATI 2-part every other hour, sounds like a doser to me.

Ah, missed that. Thanks.

Well 24 doses per day is pretty spread out already, so it’s not that. Of course, with all this massive die-off, her calc and Alk demand have decreased considerably. So she should be decreasing her doses appropriately to match that. Otherwise, I cannot think of any issue to cause Alk to fluctuate so much. Maybe the test kit is bad?

 

[ichthyoid]

What makes the alkalinity unstable? I don’t understand. I’m not just dumping stuff in there all the time.

It’s normal for a tank to decrease in alkalinity over a couple of days.
Maybe 0.2 points, but not 2.0 points.

Something is causing those alk. swings.
It’s likely either, imo-
1- the testing method, or
2- the dosing method

Especially when dosing. That’s the point of it.
Or, maybe I just haven’t had a lot of high alk. consumption corals?

 

[ActiveAngel]

Or wait... maybe some water samples for each test were taken immediately after dosing, before it could fully dissolve and disperse. That could artificially inflate some tests.

If so, then her expected Alk would be the lower recorded test values... as the high ones may be not accurate.

 

[popsbjd]

Ah, missed that. Thanks.

Well 24 doses per day is pretty spread out already, so it’s not that. Of course, with all this massive die-off, her calc and Alk demand have decreased considerably. So she should be decreasing her doses appropriately to match that. Otherwise, I cannot think of any issue to cause Alk to fluctuate so much. Maybe the test kit is bad?

I missed that post too. I would stop dosing for the time being and test daily at the same time for about a week to see what is going on. Get daily consumption and then adjust dosing from there. Also, continue to test at the same time daily for the week or so following that to adjust dosing up or down until you get to stable parameters.

 

[lmm1967]

So what temperature would you recommend? And how long of a time period should I drop it? Also I still don’t understand why my parameters are unstable. I did take a sample to Pure Reef and it confirmed my results. I use Hanna checkers for dKH, PO4 and pH, handheld refractometer for specific gravity, Seachem kits for Ca+ and Mg+ which were recommended by Pure Reef and Seachem test for NO3

I'm running my tanks at 75 - 76 these days and everythign seems to like it. This may not mean much, but our toadfish has significantly increased his activity since I managed to get his tank down from 78/79 to 75/76. He is out roaming around a lot these days - his tank actually drops down to around 73 on cold days and he seems to love it.

Obviously - this is just what is working for me at this point in time - I think I would lean towards picking numbers that you can keep everything at - and keep it stable.

Example: I stopped chasing PH for the benefit of stability - when I was doing things to try to keep it up I was getting wider swings - I opted out of trying to keep it at 8.2/8.3 in favor of it having a smaller daily swing. Last Oct my PH varied from 7.7 up to 8.25 for the month. In Feb the range was only 7.86 - 8.09. I cut my PH swings in half basically - more stability.

 

[sharis100]

So it seems all was well prior to Chem Clean except for the cyano if I am following? Your testing results do not shreak a causation other than when there might have been rapid swings - but since the corals and tank were fine- the swings are probably artificial due to dosing and testing times.

Chemi clean can stress corals. You also changed lighting recently as well which also can stress corals. If there is stress, bacteria which already exist in our tanks can make for an opportunistic infection which can be cause RTN/STN disease. As most mentioned above.

The use of chemi clean should be carefully planned and monitoring and increasing oxygen is super important in my experience- I have even dropped bubblers in my tanks if dosing this sort of treatment. That is why I prefer a long term management approach- dosing phyto, dosing bacteria strains etc. I follow the research threads showing available bacteria for coral and tank use by dosing routinely in our tanks is important. The strain of bacteria from KZ is particularly effective on cyano outbreaks but does take about 3 months to see results and concomitant use of a properly sized UV run on alternate schedule to bacterial dosing is very helpful. Chemi clean- while it can be effective more immediately- can result in widespread coral death if the system is already stressed.

I suspect that the change in lighting, combined with the cyano and chemi clean use resulted in the perfect storm to cause these demises.

Again, I base this on the tanks health prior to the chemi clean.

 

[hzheng33]

i will have to disagree with temperature being high.

i consistently run my temp around 80 and i see no issue. unless you are having some drastic temperature swing, i would look for issue elsewhere.

for the record, during winter time my temp is 78-79, during summer (and especially those few days last week) my temp is 80-82. i'd be lucky to have my temp at 79 during summer.

 

[NanCrab]

For Alk; do you have a doser? What is your current dosing program?

I use ATI 2 part at 2 ml per hour each part alternating. So part 1 doses 12 times per day and part 2 12 times per day on opposite hours. I don’t dose anything else

I missed that post too. I would stop dosing for the time being and test daily at the same time for about a week to see what is going on. Get daily consumption and then adjust dosing from there. Also, continue to test at the same time daily for the week or so following that to adjust dosing up or down until you get to stable parameters.

ok, honestly the past few months have been very difficult since I’ve literally been in the hospital 7+ out of the past 12 weeks. I will pick a time and stick to it. Do you think early am or late evening is better? Everything was looking so good before I went into the hospital December 14 but then when I was unexpectedly hospitalized for 6 weeks Tyler was overwhelmed with everything he was trying to juggle and the tank got fed, period. Probably zero or very few water changes. Just trying to pick up the pieces now. The past 8 days in the hospital was a total waste of 8 days of my life.

 

[NanCrab]

 

[NanCrab]

 

[Shawn]

I agree with Shari. I've been to Nancy's numerous times and I think the lighting is what's causing these issues. You can't change lighting like that without acclimation, as I stated in a previous thread regarding this. Especially when a lot of her corals have been under the same Noopsyche programming for almost a year.

The other parameters, while swinging, could be a contributor. But if the corals were already stressed then changing the primary means of coral growth will have the biggest affect on them (that being lighting)

Lighting changes have to take place gradually. They just do. Sad reality, really. But that's like being a vegan for a year then eating a whole lot of red meat - your stomach is gonna be wrecked for a while. A fair comparison to what the corals are going thru.

I wouldn't change it at this point. Just be mindful of it in the future. Your corals will come to adapt - a lot of your pictures look fine. A few don't.

Just my two cents!

 

[popsbjd]

I don't think a particular time of day is a important as a consistent time of day. Do what works best for your schedule. If first thing in the morning works best for you then do that. You need to know what your tank consumes so that you can replenish it. Also, after the consecutive days testing, do a normal water change, then test in 2 hours or so just to see how your water change impacts your parameters. Know your salt's parameters. I chose my salt based on the parameters i wanted to keep. It is easier to run what your salt mixes at than to be dancing with parameters even with a water change.

 

[NanCrab]

So it seems all was well prior to Chem Clean except for the cyano if I am following? Your testing results do not shreak a causation other than when there might have been rapid swings - but since the corals and tank were fine- the swings are probably artificial due to dosing and testing times.

Chemi clean can stress corals. You also changed lighting recently as well which also can stress corals. If there is stress, bacteria which already exist in our tanks can make for an opportunistic infection which can be cause RTN/STN disease. As most mentioned above.

The use of chemi clean should be carefully planned and monitoring and increasing oxygen is super important in my experience- I have even dropped bubblers in my tanks if dosing this sort of treatment. That is why I prefer a long term management approach- dosing phyto, dosing bacteria strains etc. I follow the research threads showing available bacteria for coral and tank use by dosing routinely in our tanks is important. The strain of bacteria from KZ is particularly effective on cyano outbreaks but does take about 3 months to see results and concomitant use of a properly sized UV run on alternate schedule to bacterial dosing is very helpful. Chemi clean- while it can be effective more immediately- can result in widespread coral death if the system is already stressed.

I suspect that the change in lighting, combined with the cyano and chemi clean use resulted in the perfect storm to cause these demises.

Again, I base this on the tanks health prior to the chemi clean.

We do have a bubbler in in the tank since starting the KZ Cyano Clean and coral snow and prior to chemiclean.

 

[sharis100]

Agree with Shawn, most of these photos look ok, and the corals will adapt. Slow and steady.....

 

[NanCrab]

I agree with Shari. I've been to Nancy's numerous times and I think the lighting is what's causing these issues. You can't change lighting like that without acclimation, as I stated in a previous thread regarding this. Especially when a lot of her corals have been under the same Noopsyche programming for almost a year.

The other parameters, while swinging, could be a contributor. But if the corals were already stressed then changing the primary means of coral growth will have the biggest affect on them (that being lighting)

Lighting changes have to take place gradually. They just do. Sad reality, really. But that's like being a vegan for a year then eating a whole lot of red meat - your stomach is gonna be wrecked for a while. A fair comparison to what the corals are going thru.

I wouldn't change it at this point. Just be mindful of it in the future. Your corals will come to adapt - a lot of your pictures look fine. A few don't.

Just my two cents!

This all started LONG before the lighting change Shawn. It started while I was in the hospital, sometime in late January. I started the lighting slow. I’ve had T5’s on the tank all along.

 

[Shawn]

This all started LONG before the lighting change Shawn. It started while I was in the hospital, sometime in late January. I started the lighting slow. I’ve had T5’s on the tank all along.

I must have misunderstood then. Apologies.

 

[NanCrab]

I must have misunderstood then. Apologies.

It’s ok I’m just frustrated