Chinese knockoffs

[fishlips]

I"m afraid to buy almost any equipment other than tank and stand.
Reason, Bought 5 koralia evo.New.1400,1050. Says on box they can be on wave maker. Wrong,Run backwards.Blow front cover to pieces.I know they will send you a bushing and new covers with new rubbers. And all will be good.Wrong,Wrong.They still run backwards. My point is, I dont care who makes. Just make it right.

 

[skriz]

bruce 1;773324 wrote: One question, How can it be stolen if that Country does not have any laws on copyrights? (they do but they just slap you on the back of the hand) So basically there is none.

China has signed and ratified <u>all </u>of the international copyright treaties. So, they do in fact have to abide by copyright laws. Just because they choose not to enforce it does not make it any less illegal.

 

[dawgface]

bruce 1;773324 wrote: One question, How can it be stolen if that Country does not have any laws on copyrights? (they do but they just slap you on the back of the hand) So basically there is none.

If you have to rationalize or justify that its ok because of this or that, claim its not stealing or wrong due to your own technicalities. That should tell you something.

Ultimately its up to the consumer.

I for one would no more use, buy or support products like this than I would knowingly buy stolen goods from my neighbour. Or to throw a bone to Grouper, illegal migrate work for lawn care. Wrong is wrong, justify all you want, I can not.

Edit:

Ripped Tide;773339 wrote: I'd like to see someone put ecotech to shame. As much as I love my vortech, I'd like to see a better pump built. I hope some Chinese company (or who ever) make a BETTER pump, that is SILENT, but still uses a similar set up. I have a few ideas... To bad U.S. patent laws will keep me, an American(1/4 native American), from producing a product that is better than the vortech, but based on the same principal.

I'd like to see solar powered aquarium products..... We all have ****ed Suns in our house, why hasn't this been expanded upon? Hell its the main reason LED's are so popular.

^Raj? Get your geniuses at MRC to get to it!

 

[grouper therapy]

DawgFace;773447 wrote: If you have to rationalize or justify that its ok because of this or that, claim its not stealing or wrong due to your own technicalities. That should tell you something.

Ultimately its up to the consumer.

I for one would no more use, buy or support products like this than I would knowingly buy stolen goods from my neighbour. Or to throw a bone to Grouper, illegal migrate work for lawn care. Wrong is wrong, justify all you want, I can not.

Edit:

I'd like to see solar powered aquarium products..... We all have ****ed Suns in our house, why hasn't this been expanded upon? Hell its the main reason LED's are so popular.

^Raj? Get your geniuses at MRC to get to it!

Raj is the genius at MRC Scary thoughtj/k of course

 

[bruce 1]

If you have to rationalize or justify that its OK because of this or that, claim its not stealing or wrong due to your own technicalities. That should tell you something.

I asked a question???? Never rationalized anything about them. I never said I agree with it. But I guess you had a knee jerk reaction. You should read what people post before you accuse.

Edit: I never said it was not illegal here, but it is not there so: it is legal to make them there. That is what I was saying. You say they have to abide </em>who is going to make them??

China has signed and ratified <u>all </u>of the international copyright treaties. So, they do in fact have to abide by copyright laws. Just because they choose not to enforce it does not make it any less illegal.

 

[dawgface]

I asked a question???? Never rationalized anything about them. I never said I agree with it. But I guess you had a knee jerk reaction. You should read what people post before you accuse.

Edit: I never said it was not illegal here, but it is not there so: it is legal to make them there. That is what I was saying. You say they have to abide </em>who is going to make them??

You said how can it be stolen.... No?

I responded.

 

[bruce 1]

You said "you" and quoted me, yes? I asked a question, and I never said it was right or wrong. If you make a product and have china make it for you. You should expect them to copy it. I do feel like it serves any company right to have their product copied if they have it made in china. They should have made it here.

 

[skriz]

bruce 1;773581 wrote: I never said it was not illegal here, but it is not there so: it is legal to make them there. That is what I was saying. You say they have to abide </em>who is going to make them??

It is </em> illegal there by virtue of the copyright laws/treaties the Chinese government has signed and ratified.

Obviously not many are willing and ready to make them, but here's who ought to:

Government: by restricting the import of these goods into the respective country. If China can't export these stolen goods, they'll discontinue making them.

People: by refusing to purchase these stolen goods. If people stop buying them, China will stop producing them.

Since our government is too weak to actually enforce anything against China, it's up to us to use the laws of economics.

bruce 1;773599 wrote: You said "you" and quoted me, yes? I asked a question, and I never said it was right or wrong. If you make a product and have china make it for you. You should expect them to copy it. I do feel like it serves any company right to have their product copied if they have it made in china. They should have made it here.

In case you're referring to EcoTech, their pumps are not made in China. They're made in PA, USA. The parts are foreign made, though.

 

[dawgface]

bruce 1;773599 wrote: You said "you" and quoted me, yes? I asked a question, and I never said it was right or wrong. If you make a product and have china make it for you. You should expect them to copy it. I do feel like it serves any company right to have their product copied if they have it made in china. They should have made it here.

I'm confused now man. All I mean is that I think its stealing, that is all. Now why company's choose to take thier manufacturing overseas, I don't like it but I understand...... We are taxed to the hilt. They do it because other country want thier business more by way of cheaper taxes. Same reason people are moving in droves to places like Texas, no state income taxes. Obviously other things play into, so I will say I moderately agree, I wish they kept the entirety of thier operations here. But in this day in age that just isn't going to happen.

 

[bruce 1]

If the parts are made in China. Well it is made in China. Any monkey can put nut (a) onto bolt (b).

Their Government does not adhere to any laws. So again if you choose to send a product there that is copyrited here. Well expect them to copy it. Served them right. (Ecotech)

 

[cjsparky]

bruce 1;773616 wrote: If the parts are made in China. Well it is made in China. Any monkey can put nut (a) onto bolt (b).

Their Government does not adhere to any laws. So again if you choose to send a product there that is copyrited here. Well expect them to copy it. Served them right. (Ecotech)

And the woman walking down the street with a short skirt deserves to be harassed? or worse?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

bruce 1;773616 wrote: If the parts are made in China. Well it is made in China. Any monkey can put nut (a) onto bolt (b).

Their Government does not adhere to any laws. So again if you choose to send a product there that is copyrited here. Well expect them to copy it. Served them right. (Ecotech)

OH My. I couldn't disagree more. Do you think you could rebuild a device by simply looking at the screws? Or other miscellaneous parts? By this logic, all aquarium are pretty much equal. They're all just glass and silicone, and "any monkey can put nut (a) onto bolt (b)", right? I KNOW you feel different, per your steady recommendations for a certain aquarium manufacturer in Texas.

I agree with Skriz, Dagface, et al. Celebrating the theft of success and ingenuity is not something to be proud of. In particular, in this case, Ecotech has far more to offer than simple pumps. 1) they're far from simple. 2) Their service along with said products is legendary (which Chinese products will NOT have at all) 3) There already is the "competition". It doesn't hold a flame.

To be honest, I see this theft of ingenuity as only hurting the consumer. It will cause the genuine manufacturer to rebuff and reconsider existing policies regarding customer care, etc, and ultimately, I see it affecting price negatively. JMO

 

[skriz]

bruce 1;773616 wrote: If the parts are made in China. Well it is made in China. Any monkey can put nut (a) onto bolt (b).

No, the parts are sourced from different regions/countries. The source of the parts doesn't determine where the product is made. Using your logic, all of the Hyundais built in the new plant in Alabama are really made in Korea; that doesn't make sense.

bruce 1;773616 wrote: Their Government does not adhere to any laws. So again if you choose to send a product there that is copyrited here. Well expect them to copy it. Served them right. (Ecotech)

That still doesn't make stealing the product right. Nor does it make wanting them to steal it right. Nor does it make buying the stolen product right.

 

[grouper therapy]

I think what bruce1 is saying is not that he condones it but if anyone (not just ecotech) does business with unscrupulous people you get what you deserve when they treat you by their set of scruples. If us manufacturers are willing to compromise for their own set of reasons and outsource these components from China then why is not equally just for the consumer to do it for their own reasons.? It really is a never ending spiraling downward helix.

 

[cjsparky]

grouper therapy;773733 wrote: I think what bruce1 is saying is not that he condones it but if anyone (not just ecotech) does business with unscrupulous people you get what you deserve when they treat you by their set of scruples. If us manufacturers are willing to compromise for their own set of reasons and outsource these components from China then why is not equally just for the consumer to do it for their own reasons.? It really is a never ending spiraling downward helix.

I had not considered it that way...but I see your point!

CJ

 

[falos]

People you pay for what you git
Build quality customer service , warranty with quick turn around if you have to use it these cost money. Rare earth magnets ceramic bearings etc. All cost considerable amount on the manufacturing front.
Then you have to figure in R&D just making the pumps (es) could of cost millions in developing it changing manufacturing practices new machines programming all these require monetary resources put up as a gamble that it will increase the amount sold per quarter/year. Also during this time they were paying a nother R&D department to develop the raidon and programing team to do the software.
I Personally don't like the price of there products they are high but that's a financial issue 500 for a ph but at the same time 100 for a frag dusnot bother me even if I kill it on the way home just go git a nother
Ecotechs products are good and well worth the money would I waste my money buying a Chinese knock off knowing if it lasts a year I'm lucky no
I thought the moto of this hobbie and its equipment was buy cheep buy twice

 

[bruce 1]

grouper therapy;773733 wrote: I think what bruce1 is saying is not that he condones it but if anyone (not just ecotech) does business with unscrupulous people you get what you deserve when they treat you by their set of scruples. If us manufacturers are willing to compromise for their own set of reasons and outsource these components from China then why is not equally just for the consumer to do it for their own reasons.? It really is a never ending spiraling downward helix.

100% correct Grouper! I am not one to sit down and type a letter, (I do not beat arround the bush) to spell out what I have to say. You would think most people would just use their common sense. (To fill in the blanks) Wow I spelled it out for them.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

grouper therapy;773733 wrote: I think what bruce1 is saying is not that he condones it but if anyone (not just ecotech) does business with unscrupulous people you get what you deserve when they treat you by their set of scruples. If us manufacturers are willing to compromise for their own set of reasons and outsource these components from China then why is not equally just for the consumer to do it for their own reasons.? It really is a never ending spiraling downward helix.

Because one is legal and one is not? One is ethical and one is not?

 

[grouper therapy]

jmaneyapanda;773770 wrote: Because one is legal and one is not? One is ethical and one is not?

I don't understand . I don't think I've argued that. I was asking if the Us companies are doing business with Chinese companies knowing they are doing these unethical and illegal acts then why support them? If they can justify supporting it then the consumers could as well . What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

grouper therapy;773773 wrote: I don't understand . I don't think I've argued that. I was asking if the Us companies are doing business with Chinese companies knowing they are doing these unethical and illegal acts then why support them? If they can justify supporting it then the consumers could as well . What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

What company are you accusing of illegally and unethically outsourcing to china? As it pertains to this thread- ecotech? If so, I'd like to see one shred of proof.