Closed loop system????

[seth the wine guy]

Anyone that is power usage conscious probably should never do a CL. The amount of GPH generated from a Vortech MP40 vs a Reeflo Super Dart and the watts used for each tells a story.

MP40- It moves 3,200gph of water using 28 watts.
Reeflo Super Dart- With 4' of head it moves 3,400gph using 168 watts!

That's running 24/7. I use four MP40's on my tank. That means I would need almost 4 Darts devouring 672 watts continuously on a CL to generate the same flow. That's just plain stupid.

A CL is just a tremendously inefficient use of wattage to achieve the same ends as a PH. I do prefer the unobtrusive look/freedom you get from a CL. It stops there though.

 

[mikesmith34]

Seth The Wine Guy;993216 wrote: Anyone that is power usage conscious probably should never do a CL. The amount of GPH generated from a Vortech MP40 vs a Reeflo Super Dart and the watts used for each tells a story.

MP40- It moves 3,200gph of water using 28 watts.
Reeflo Super Dart- With 4' of head it moves 3,400gph using 168 watts!

That's running 24/7. I use four MP40's on my tank. That means I would need almost 4 Darts devouring 672 watts continuously on a CL to generate the same flow. That's just plain stupid.

A CL is just a tremendously inefficient use of wattage to achieve the same ends as a PH. I do prefer the unobtrusive look/freedom you get from a CL. It stops there though.

I haven't thought of it in a power consumption angle. But the numbers don't lie and that makes a lot of sence:up:

 

[iu_gary]

I use dc pumps on mine. So power is not that big of an issue. I just don't like the look of pumps hanging in my tank. The max price difference on this is less than $100 per year running 24 / 7 /365. That's the price of one coral so for me the cleaner look is worth the extra money.

 

[chemically_balanced]

Best tank I've ever owned... Wish I would have never sold it.

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End Results... you can see the intake and returns near the top left and right.

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[grouper therapy]

Seth The Wine Guy;993216 wrote: Anyone that is power usage conscious probably should never do a CL. The amount of GPH generated from a Vortech MP40 vs a Reeflo Super Dart and the watts used for each tells a story.

MP40- It moves 3,200gph of water using 28 watts.
Reeflo Super Dart- With 4' of head it moves 3,400gph using 168 watts!

That's running 24/7. I use four MP40's on my tank. That means I would need almost 4 Darts devouring 672 watts continuously on a CL to generate the same flow. That's just plain stupid.

A CL is just a tremendously inefficient use of wattage to achieve the same ends as a PH. I do prefer the unobtrusive look/freedom you get from a CL. It stops there though.

Not exactly accurate.
Total GPH is not the only performance factor to consider. You are using 4 MP40s to disperse your flow over the entire area of you tank. A single dc pump paired with an ocean motion can disperse 3200 gph in even more directions depending on the plumbing configuration. Let's redo the math.
4 mp40s at 28 watts =112 watts, one 1200 waveline dc pump =130 watts 18 watt saving, you could add back in an ocean motion and 20 watts so now you are at 38 watt savings. Now lets talk return on initial investment. 4 mp40 $1600, one pump/ocean motion 4 way combo $800. $800 spent at 15 cents a day fro the extra daily kilowatt equates to 14 years ,roughly. Basing the decision on economics would be stupid .

 

[grouper therapy]

Of course I assume you are not running 4 mp40's at full throttle simultaneously in you tank.

 

[grouper therapy]

Too often people concern themselves with the total GPH when designing circulation with in their tank. When in reality much lesser flow properly dispersed will accomplish the same if not better results.

 

[rdnelson]

Now this is the type of debate we have been missing.

I love hearing educated opinions that differ. Oh and yours too Seth. Hehehehe. Just kidding. Hearing two people use knowledge and logic to debate pros and cons helps us lesser folks make better decisions.

 

[w_hartyjr]

rdnelson99;993370 wrote: Now this is the type of debate we have been missing.

I love hearing educated opinions that differ. Oh and yours too Seth. Hehehehe. Just kidding. Hearing two people use knowledge and logic to debate pros and cons helps us lesser folks make better decisions.

I would agree 100%

 

[davidinga]

grouper therapy;993347 wrote: Not exactly accurate.
Total GPH is not the only performance factor to consider. You are using 4 MP40s to disperse your flow over the entire area of you tank. A single dc pump paired with an ocean motion can disperse 3200 gph in even more directions depending on the plumbing configuration. Let's redo the math.
4 mp40s at 28 watts =112 watts, one 1200 waveline dc pump =130 watts 18 watt saving, you could add back in an ocean motion and 20 watts so now you are at 38 watt savings. Now lets talk return on initial investment. 4 mp40 $1600, one pump/ocean motion 4 way combo $800. $800 spent at 15 cents a day fro the extra daily kilowatt equates to 14 years ,roughly. Basing the decision on economics would be stupid .

How about redoing the math using four Wp60's at 5300gph each and only costing $70/each lol

$280 and 21,200gph!!!

 

[grouper therapy]

DavidinGA;993373 wrote: How about redoing the math using four Wp60's at 5300gph each and only costing $70/each lol

$280 and 21,200gph!!!

Sure be right back with you.

 

[grouper therapy]

4 wp60 at 60 watts = 240 watts vs dc pump/om combo at 150 watts
difference of 90 watts = roughly 30 cents a day at 15 cents a kilowatt
365x.30 = $109 so roughly 5 year pay back on the closed loop initial investment. That is if you can figure out how to get a wp60 to last 5 years.

 

[grouper therapy]

I'm not sure 4 power heads of any type can diperse the flow and reach the spots a closed loop can when properly designed, People often forget to utilize the intake side of the closed loop and use multiple intakes thereby adding to the versatility.

 

[w_hartyjr]

I'm also not sure the wp60 actually flow what there rated at!!

 

[sewer urchin]

Basing the decision on economics would be stupid.

This one statement has expresses my reefing experience so far.... gawd that bites the big one

 

[tonymission]

grouper therapy;993385 wrote: 4 wp60 at 60 watts = 240 watts vs dc pump/om combo at 150 watts
difference of 90 watts = roughly 30 cents a day at 15 cents a kilowatt
365x.30 = $109 so roughly 5 year pay back on the closed loop initial investment. That is if you can figure out how to get a wp60 to last 5 years.

$109 over 5 years... ? Seems goofy to make a decision based on that

 

[acroholic]

An MP60 is officially rated by EcoTech at 7500 peak GPH, but actual flow tested independently is 8500 GPH, so four MP60s would generate 30,000 GPH peak flow officially, or 34,000 GPH independently tested.

MP40s had an independently tested output of 3781 GPH peak, vs 3400 peak claimed by EcoTech.

 

[grouper therapy]

I would not base the decision on economics or GPH ay or nay . I would base it on which system best meets the perceived needs of the individuals' tank. If is ease of set up is high on you priority then most definitely power heads would be the clear winner. If a clean, professional look is high on your priorities then hands down a closed loop wins out. Performance? IMO and that is all it is, the closed loop stretches the lead silently due to its versatility.

 

[acroholic]

The actual physical installation of the tank would influence choice as well, I would think. If you have access to the bulkheads making up the CL and can fix them if there is an issue, then no problem, but if the tank is up against a solid wall, and there is no access to the CL other than draining then moving the tank to repair/replace a leaky CL bulkhead, then maybe an in-tank pump is the preferred route in that case.

The fewer holes drilled in my tank the better is my own opinion, which is why I use Vortechs for my in-tank circulation. It may be primarily psychological vs any actual risk in a CL, but that is just the way I choose to do it.

 

[tonymission]

CL also has to be tougher if you ever wanted to change your rockscape/tank layout.