Closed loop system????

tonymission;993431 wrote: CL also has to be tougher if you ever wanted to change your rockscape/tank layout.
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The much bigger deal is when all those thumb size frags are actually basketball sized Acro colonies. The entire flow pattern and dynamic of your tank changes and what was once plenty of flow, is now no where near enough. Sad reality is, there are so few that ever experience the problem to know about it. STN starts happening due to a lack of flow being forced through every nook of the tank.

I heard versatility mentioned as a nod in CL's direction in this thread. Really? I can't think of anything more versatile than moveable pumps that can be programed using a super simple interface through APEX's fusion. The possible flow patterns you can produce are infinite and changeable with a click of a mouse or dragging a point on flow graph. No wrestling with locline underwater needed.

But, it's all about your personal expectations for your tank and what you want from it. I strive to grow acro colonies in the same growth pattern as they are commonly found in the wild. Very densely packed corals formations or tabling. I don't care for long stringy growth patterns that low flow tanks produce. But, that's just my preference.
 
Yea, CL versatility is wherever you can direct the loc line, I guess.

I am programming my Vortechs through the Reeflink/EcoSmart Live platform now. Pretty nice. Had to work out a couple internet connectivity issues at first, but smooth now.
 
Personally I never experienced long stringy growth of colonies as some do. Of course with enough experience growing large natural growth pattern colonies of lps and sps one can plan ahead with the placement of inlets and outlets of a closed loop. If you lack that experience then I agree the ability to move the unidirectional power heads are definitely advantageous. One can place intakes behind the rock work that creates a flow through the rocks which I found resulting in excellent growth patterns. I guess if loc lines are a concern then I would definitely think outside the box just a little. With the new dc pump's variable speed , multiple outlets , multiple inlets and the ability to alternate the sequence of flow , I would say yes they have versatility.
Bottom line is that you can have a beautiful tank with large natural looking corals with either system CLOSED LOOP or POWER HEADS. To imply otherwise is asinine .
If you don't mind a little planning, research, work, do not suffer from hydroletiphobia,and very little noise with a clean professional look and have an awesome tank then I would go with a closed loop.
If you like a simple installation, suffer from hydroletiphobia, don't mind black turds on the ends of your tank that sound like bees on steroids while producing that unprecedented " magical" undertow along with extreme amounts of bidirectional flow and want an awesome tank then I would go with power heads.:)
 
I'm always eager to learn something new. Please give us some pics of your current closed loop, how it's configured, and the tank shots showing growth patterns and lack of exposed stand pipes, returns, and Locline.

I'm still in planning stages of my next build so it would be helpful for me to use it as a possible configuration. But, even at its best, I still doubt CL is good for much other than small tanks like you ran yours on.

And no matter how you do your math, I'm still able to push 12,800gph through my tank at less wattage than your CL at *3,200gph.

*Your calculations didn't even take head loss into consideration. After that, and all the elbows needed to layout your CL, you're falling well below 3,000gph.

Some people enjoy wandering through the woods finding sticks, laying them in the sun to dry, and rubbing them together until their hands are raw to make a fire. They take pride in how the fire was so difficult to create, how cheaply they did it, and the planning and effort that went into it. I'll buy a $.99 Bic, click, fire, thanks.
 
I love all these unbiased opinions. :) hehehehehe

Seriously, I suspect a lot of people have expanded horizons after reading the debate here. It is pretty clear that no one method will win out with all but more importantly, it is clear that forethought and planning is required with either.
 
Seth The Wine Guy;993464 wrote: I'm always eager to learn something new. Please give us some pics of your current closed loop, how it's configured, and the tank shots showing growth patterns and lack of exposed stand pipes, returns, and Locline.

I'm still in planning stages of my next build so it would be helpful for me to use it as a possible configuration. But, even at its best, I still doubt CL is good for much other than small tanks like you ran yours on.

And no matter how you do your math, I'm still able to push 12,800gph through my tank at less wattage than your CL at *3,200gph.

*Your calculations didn't even take head loss into consideration. After that, and all the elbows needed to layout your CL, you're falling well below 3,000gph.

Some people enjoy wandering through the woods finding sticks, laying them in the sun to dry, and rubbing them together until their hands are raw to make a fire. They take pride in how the fire was so difficult to create, how cheaply they did it, and the planning and effort that went into it. I'll buy a $.99 Bic, click, fire, thanks.
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If you are serious about your next build I would be glad to give you a quote( good ole boy discount) on designing you a closed loop system that you could have EricB(aka your BIC) install for you. Once I receive a deposit from you we can line up some tanks to visit and you can see first hand these closed loops. Sorry at the moment I personally don't have one set up. I did have one on my 156 nano and like IUGary said I built one on his 300 dd nano and plus multiple tanks through out Atlanta that I have used them on. There are some pics of my 156 on here some where, on that tank I did use sea swirls to begin with but then removed them. I am setting one up on my next tank that is in the works.
FYI* my calculations were pretty close concerning flow since a closed loop does not experience head loss from vertical lift, of course you would know that if you knew how to rub sticks together to make a fire. You are correct on some loss being experienced due to the friction loss but usually it is miniscule. I'm happy for your 12,800 Gph you can push through you tank that is alot of flow. I'd like to see and here a video of them all running simultaneously wide open at that GPH on your tank that might convince me to lower my consultation fee on your next build.
 
I'd use power heads on my system if I did not know how to design a closed loop. I've seen some fantastic tanks with them running on them. Don't care for them mounted on the end of tanks but it is not atrocious (ignore the turd comment above ) that was for Seth's 12,800GPH ego.:) I've seen some tanks where the PHs were strategically placed and some what hidden that looked great.
 
You all have fun I gotta get back to work. See ya in a few months. Call me Seth if want to upgrade.
 
Guys,
I think that we all know how to play nice......

The OP wants to know about the pro's and con's of closed loop systems. Can we limit it to that.
 
We use a closed loop on our 550 gallon peninsula display at the store and it works wonders! Especially great because we can keep the closed loop going while we are working on the tank which can take a bit of time due to the size of it. In the 3+ years I have been at the store we have had no issues with it. No leaks nothing. And just like it has been mentioned it has no more leak potential then any overflow or anything that uses a bulkhead.
 
Sewer Urchin;993491 wrote: Guys,
I think that we all know how to play nice......

The OP wants to know about the pro's and con's of closed loop systems. Can we limit it to that.
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My apologies I did not know we could not go on at each other anymore. No ribbing or joking I guess. There is your answer Rich.
 
I got a few chuckles out of the back and forth honestly. Both of you guys are good. :)
 
tonymission;993503 wrote: I got a few chuckles out of the back and forth honestly. Both of you guys are good. :)
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I once did this back and forth with a few around here namely Ralph, Raj, Jeremy, Jaycen B, Seth, Rich,Jenn and a few others. We would get the busting on each other going pretty good sometimes around here at times. I have always thought enough of myself that I didn't any one else approval and those above cared even less what I thought of them. GOOD TIMES! I learned something from everyone of them except Rich.:tongue:
 
grouper therapy;993513 wrote: I once did this back and forth with a few around here namely Ralph, Raj, Jeremy, Jaycen B, Seth, Rich,Jenn and a few others. We would get the busting on each other going pretty good sometimes around here at times. I have always thought enough of myself that I didn't any one else approval and those above cared even less what I thought of them. GOOD TIMES! I learned something from everyone of them except Rich.:tongue:
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And we will get back to that. By the way, you left out Jessie. And at least I taught what good beer is and what ground probes are good for. :)
 
rdnelson99;993515 wrote: And we will get back to that. By the way, you left out Jessie. And at least I taught what good beer is and what ground probes are good for. :)
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My bad brother. You did that!:)
 
grouper therapy;993513 wrote: I once did this back and forth with a few around here namely Ralph, Raj, Jeremy, Jaycen B, Seth, Rich,Jenn and a few others. We would get the busting on each other going pretty good sometimes around here at times. I have always thought enough of myself that I didn't any one else approval and those above cared even less what I thought of them. GOOD TIMES! I learned something from everyone of them except Rich.:tongue:
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Well, welcome back! Who says you can't have a second chance to make a first impression?

I didn't realize you were commercially consulting and installing across the city now. Good for folks to know. ;)
 
How would you go about installing a CL on a rimless tank? Mount the discharge nozzles on the back glass?
 
Seth The Wine Guy;993645 wrote: Well, welcome back! Who says you can't have a second chance to make a first impression?

I didn't realize you were commercially consulting and installing across the city now. Good for folks to know. ;)
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Not really a commercial venture more of an act of intellectual philanpothy for those who lack the ability to start fires with sticks or perhaps calculate pressure loss on closed loop systems or other basic life skills. The fees I charge are part of the therapy if you will for those who have ( like a blind squirrel) found a nut and need to share some of it. Ready for that quote?;)
 
w_hartyjr;992495 wrote: Does anybody do this anymore?seems like a good idea for more flow,without all the extra powerheads or wave makers. I would like to see some pictures of your setup,if possible. Also what size tank do you have and what pump do you use for the closed loop
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What size tank are you doing?
 
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