dinos... how to rid them for good?
- Thread starter russ-iv
- Start date
well i can say this. bacter clean m doesnt make a dent in them. i turned off my uv to let the product do it's work and it spread on a rock. it may work on dead dinos that are stringy and hang around. ive dosed the recommended doseage a day every 12 hours to observe it's effect.
i believe i need to starve my tank of co2. unfortunately i cant grow algae in my tank to outcompete the dinos. if i had a low nutrient strain of algae i might be good.
the uv not only kills but it also oxidizes the water with ozone as the water is bombarded. h202 or peroxide also does the same.
blue lights retard the growth at least 75%. if i turn whites on for an hour...things get ugly quickly and the sand starts bubbling like alkaceltzer as it grows.
it is also not wise to run uv with h202 as it is already unstable in an aquarium but really breaks down when hit with light. it would be counterproductive.
as it stands i cut my uv off and returning to peroxide again. im guessing if i keep my orp up it will eventually die off. i just hate to lose a cleaner shrimp i cant find in this huge tank.
on another forum. im seeing if i can get a strain of dinoflagellates that are protists solely and not photosynthetic. they are responsible for getting rid of red tides.
i think people misdiagnose dinoflagellates more often than not.
i believe i need to starve my tank of co2. unfortunately i cant grow algae in my tank to outcompete the dinos. if i had a low nutrient strain of algae i might be good.
the uv not only kills but it also oxidizes the water with ozone as the water is bombarded. h202 or peroxide also does the same.
blue lights retard the growth at least 75%. if i turn whites on for an hour...things get ugly quickly and the sand starts bubbling like alkaceltzer as it grows.
it is also not wise to run uv with h202 as it is already unstable in an aquarium but really breaks down when hit with light. it would be counterproductive.
as it stands i cut my uv off and returning to peroxide again. im guessing if i keep my orp up it will eventually die off. i just hate to lose a cleaner shrimp i cant find in this huge tank.
on another forum. im seeing if i can get a strain of dinoflagellates that are protists solely and not photosynthetic. they are responsible for getting rid of red tides.
i think people misdiagnose dinoflagellates more often than not.
One thing that I've found to help get them when they've been weakened is to increase your PH and keep it high for a couple of weeks. Was able to eliminate them in a tank a couple of years ago with a combination of the hydrogen peroxide dosing and an elevated PH.
yeah. randy's method. you used kalkwasser right? im considering this is as well to help clear out the co2. i dont think it is ph alone. i think it is when co2 reacts with calcium hydroxide removing co2 out of the equation. people have also had success avoiding dosing peroxide and using an oxygenator instead.
it really boils down to getting co2 out. wish i had a microscope to test if high ph alone would kill dinos.
Russ, I actually bought a microscope for this purpose and it helped me out tremendously! Not only was I able to identify which specific type of dinos I had, I was also able to see what effects different treatments had on them. I tried elevated pH, Dino X, freshwater, and hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen peroxide hands down killed every last booger in there. The elevated pH came in a close second with about a 98% kill rate. I imagine a combination of the two (for ostreopsis specifically) would knock em dead nicely.
mind if i chuck you a sample? i did h202 and knocked it to it's knees with lights out but the moment whites went on the next week. it was party time for them to come back.
did you only elevate the ph? or did you introduce kalk?
i dosed 1ml per 1 gallon every 12 hours for 3 days. im going to go 1ml per 5 gallons as a long term solution since sps stressed with my nuke method.
You're more than welcome to send a sample! I'm south of the city in Peachtree City, but perhaps we can work something out so that the sample wouldn't have to sit in the mail. You can shoot me a text at 404-989-4976 and we can work out the details.
While I was dosing the Dino X I had a significantly reduced photo period. I have an RBTA that has probably been the most stressed by the dinos and so I figured a blackout would surely do it in. However, I know that during periods of darkness the dinos release into the water column, so it's my belief that without a supplemental treatment, blackout periods only seem to stall them.
I tried to be as objective as possible while doing the tests under the microscope. While I didn't use kalk to raise the pH, I did use Seachem Reef Buffer; after mixing it in a cup, I tested the pH and it was at 11. I added a small amount to the specimen and after 5 minutes, every last dino was dead in there. So it could be the fact that I raised the pH ridiculously high, but it certainly worked.
Right now I'm gonna stick with the 1ml per 10 gallons H2O2 treatment since I'm trying to save a SOTR frag, but right now most everything in the tank is doing well. Before the Dino X treatment, those dinos were taking down my green slimer, my atlanta aquarium chameleon and my pink lemonade, all of which have recovered now. Right now, the dinos seem to be returning, but not forming long stringy threads like before. However, that could be just because they're still growing in numbers. If they do get worse I'm going to double my H2O2 dose and raise the pH with that Reef Buffer to 8.6.
While I was dosing the Dino X I had a significantly reduced photo period. I have an RBTA that has probably been the most stressed by the dinos and so I figured a blackout would surely do it in. However, I know that during periods of darkness the dinos release into the water column, so it's my belief that without a supplemental treatment, blackout periods only seem to stall them.
I tried to be as objective as possible while doing the tests under the microscope. While I didn't use kalk to raise the pH, I did use Seachem Reef Buffer; after mixing it in a cup, I tested the pH and it was at 11. I added a small amount to the specimen and after 5 minutes, every last dino was dead in there. So it could be the fact that I raised the pH ridiculously high, but it certainly worked.
Right now I'm gonna stick with the 1ml per 10 gallons H2O2 treatment since I'm trying to save a SOTR frag, but right now most everything in the tank is doing well. Before the Dino X treatment, those dinos were taking down my green slimer, my atlanta aquarium chameleon and my pink lemonade, all of which have recovered now. Right now, the dinos seem to be returning, but not forming long stringy threads like before. However, that could be just because they're still growing in numbers. If they do get worse I'm going to double my H2O2 dose and raise the pH with that Reef Buffer to 8.6.
ok this is great info.
ill say this. you can go longer by using a doser rather than using a shock and awe attack like i did. sure it knocked in to next week but next week happens quickly. (a week). im going a different tactic based on my observations.
1 ml per 100 gallons per hour.
i have not lost anything yet but the idea is to sustain h202 for tome rather than nuking it over 72 hours. i will update my success or failures with this approach as time goes on. however i am seeing a positive response already.
my changes include the following.
20ml flourish phosphate
10ml flourish nitrogen
60ml iron (tech m)
reduce temp to 75
continue h202 on the doser.
im hoping to grab some gha or some nuisance algae to out compete the dinos
I've only been doing my H2O2 dosing for a few days now, but I can see a marked improvement in the tank as well. My NO3 is still pretty high, but coral growth and color is pretty outstanding right now, so despite the very small amount of dinos in the system, it seems to be doing really well. I would put the hydrogen peroxide on a doser if I had an extra available, but both of mine are in use by my 2-part. However, the only deleterious effect I've seen from dosing it is that my zoas close up for a few minutes, but that's it. I know it's not affecting their growth because my rastas are multiplying faster than I can count!
As a side note, I wish I could stop carbon dosing, but for me that's just not an option because my tank is heavily stocked and heavily fed. I'm using Red Sea NOPOX as my carbon source since it's worked so well for me, but I do believe that it was because I was overdosing this stuff that the dinos had nothing to compete with in the tank. Of course they had been previously imported somehow, but they really didn't flourish until my nitrates had hit 0 and stayed there for a few days.
As a side note, I wish I could stop carbon dosing, but for me that's just not an option because my tank is heavily stocked and heavily fed. I'm using Red Sea NOPOX as my carbon source since it's worked so well for me, but I do believe that it was because I was overdosing this stuff that the dinos had nothing to compete with in the tank. Of course they had been previously imported somehow, but they really didn't flourish until my nitrates had hit 0 and stayed there for a few days.
when i did the nuke method i had the same occur. zoas, duncans, goni closed. my alveopora was unaffected. shrimp die though.
so i did a full 12 hour light cycle at 100% and had marginal dino growth. just bubbles on the rocks the entire day. wothout dosing i would see strings of snot take over. the zoas closed at first when dosing the small amount every hour but now are used to it.
i woke up this morning to see if anything was amiss and saw my YT slightly agitated so i dropped dosing to 1ml per hour on 300 system volume.
ill do another 12 hour light cycle and see if dinos can overcome the drawback of the dose.
no nuisance algae caught in the scrubber yet. i think h202 dosing will be counterproductive anyway but its worth a shot.
more to come
so i did a full 12 hour light cycle at 100% and had marginal dino growth. just bubbles on the rocks the entire day. wothout dosing i would see strings of snot take over. the zoas closed at first when dosing the small amount every hour but now are used to it.
i woke up this morning to see if anything was amiss and saw my YT slightly agitated so i dropped dosing to 1ml per hour on 300 system volume.
ill do another 12 hour light cycle and see if dinos can overcome the drawback of the dose.
no nuisance algae caught in the scrubber yet. i think h202 dosing will be counterproductive anyway but its worth a shot.
more to come
I tried this stuff and in the end lost almost all my coral. The dinos would back down for a few days, I'd do a water change and they'd return with a vengeance. Unfortunately, this stuff requires water changes or you severely risk your coral. I read about the Continuum product, but didn't try it since no one local stocked it at the time, the other product was on hand. It's also crazy expensive.
yeah water changes definitely fuel the growth.
ive been doing 4ml h202 per 40 gallon water change with good results.
so halving my doseage has shown a slight decrease in effectiveness during the light cycle. (1ml per hour) however im going to keep it there for now.
i may go 1ml per 2 hours if i see anything amiss. no coral shock like doing the nuke method. zoas are out. the phosphate doseage just increased turf algae on my glass
ive been doing 4ml h202 per 40 gallon water change with good results.
so halving my doseage has shown a slight decrease in effectiveness during the light cycle. (1ml per hour) however im going to keep it there for now.
i may go 1ml per 2 hours if i see anything amiss. no coral shock like doing the nuke method. zoas are out. the phosphate doseage just increased turf algae on my glass
Any news to report? I've been dosing a little more than 1 ml per 10g and it's kept my dino in check, but I'm still seeing a little bleaching to my coral.
My next move is to start elevating my pH with the h202 to see what I can get - maybe even try the bacter M in conjunction with everything else.
My next move is to start elevating my pH with the h202 to see what I can get - maybe even try the bacter M in conjunction with everything else.
ive messed with dosing leaving everything else normal. lights. feeding. etc.
i have 300 gallons total volume.
1ml per hour isnt enough. (24 ml per day)
3ml per hour fish show signs of stress but keep dinos to just little bubbles
2ml per hour no stress with anything even zoas. cleaner shrimp still alive (48ml day) dinos are the same as 3ml per hour.
i like the 2ml per hour over dosing.
previously i dosed 1ml per 1 gallon (300ml) and it did bomb the dinos in to next week but they came back.
bacter m is a waste of time. it doesnt slow it's growth let alone kill it off.
temp dropping doesnt effect growth rate either
bombing the tank with nutrients shows no increase or decrease in growth. (phosphate and nitrate dosing) just 5 days of cleaning my glass caled in algae.
im letting my nitrate drop on it's own and see if they need it for photosynthesis. it went from 5ppm since my dosing to .2 now. i figure by the weekend the tank will be nitrate starved and corals will start paling. ill see if that finishes them off or has no effect.
im also trying to encourage cyano growth to outcompete them.
for the most part. it is business as usual. however it is like living with HIV (im speculating). just because you can have a high quality of life, doesnt mean you arent infected.
Hey Russ,
Sorry to hear that you're still struggling with them. Mine came back as well, so I began a new offensive. Although I thought it was pointless, I went ahead and did the 3 day blackout, then combined that with raising the pH to 8.5-8.9 and dosing 2ml per 10g H2O2. After the 3 days I cannot find a single dino in any sample under my microscrope. After the Dino X treatment, the dinos were still in my samples and spread throughout the tank within a matter of days. I really think complete eradication may be the only solution. I certainly hope this latest attack wins the day, but I have to remain skeptical since these things seem so dang resilient!
Like you, I've had 0 nutrients and high nutrients; high light, low light and none of that seems to phase them. I really hope you find something that works for your system and get rid of this scourge! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
Sorry to hear that you're still struggling with them. Mine came back as well, so I began a new offensive. Although I thought it was pointless, I went ahead and did the 3 day blackout, then combined that with raising the pH to 8.5-8.9 and dosing 2ml per 10g H2O2. After the 3 days I cannot find a single dino in any sample under my microscrope. After the Dino X treatment, the dinos were still in my samples and spread throughout the tank within a matter of days. I really think complete eradication may be the only solution. I certainly hope this latest attack wins the day, but I have to remain skeptical since these things seem so dang resilient!
Like you, I've had 0 nutrients and high nutrients; high light, low light and none of that seems to phase them. I really hope you find something that works for your system and get rid of this scourge! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
WOW! Talk about a lot of "over my head" conversation!!
I don't know why you guys are having such issues. When I've had dinos (twice now), all I do is simply use a brine net to net out the stringy stuff. Use a baster to blast rocks and glass so that it goes free floating in the water column and do an immediate water change. I do this every other day and after about a week to 10 days....they're gone.
I don't change my lighting periods, I don't dose any medications, I don't turn off my skimmer nor the UV and I don't change the water flow within the water column.
I guess the KIS method works for me.
I don't know why you guys are having such issues. When I've had dinos (twice now), all I do is simply use a brine net to net out the stringy stuff. Use a baster to blast rocks and glass so that it goes free floating in the water column and do an immediate water change. I do this every other day and after about a week to 10 days....they're gone.
I don't change my lighting periods, I don't dose any medications, I don't turn off my skimmer nor the UV and I don't change the water flow within the water column.
I guess the KIS method works for me.
My guess is that ease of eradication is related to the type of dinos you have. When I first started dealing with them (at the time I thought it was brown cyano), I did the exact same thing as you, Jeff. I turkey basted the snot out of those rocks and did a 40% water change. Now, I didn't do as many as you did, but I did do two 40% changes. The dinos came back quite vigorously, but I've read several posts where people had the same success you did. I definitely started with simple, but had to quickly evolve my tactics. This stuff is nasty!
hey thanks joe.
im going to avoid 3 days black out. it seems skipping a light period and letting the h202 do it's thing makes it disappear enough. really. you cant tell my tank is infected at all at this point. the only clue is by looking at the rocks at a 45 degree angle up and see the bubbles. also the returns near the top are the first clue for me.
so this herpes of reefing is under control, it is still not gone.
kaulk will be my next option after i observe 0 nitrate. i truly can have 0 nitrate due to the fact my tank doesnt produce enough. technically everything that needs to photosynthesize has to have nitrate. so this will be an interesting observation.
if it doesnt work ill dose nitrate again and go the kalk method.
Joe....I'm just gonna consider myself one of the lucky ones! LOL!! Fortunately, it was in my QT tank in the garage. If it had gotten worse, I probably would've just shut the tank down and dumped the entire contents. Display tank...now that's a different story.
Following to check on progress.
