electrical grounding probe or no?

[myreefclub0070]

Due to a recent post of livestock lost due to voltage in the tank caused by faulty equipment, I'd like to ask what are your thoughts on aquarium grade electrical grounding probes?
It just make so much sense to me but some folk have objections.
What are the PROS and CONS to having this in your tank and would you?

Here is a link to similar items for some that are not familiar with it :

 

[grouper therapy]

How will it prevent the current from passing through your fish? And if it is not used ,what completes the circuit for current to pass through the fish? Is there an earth ground prior to its use? If so why is a ground probe needed? If not why supply one? To me it is kinda like moving the second power line down so the bird can roost on both

 

[grouper therapy]

Those are all questions I asked myself when deciding. I came up with answers just not sure if they were correct or not .
So no I do not use them. If I were in a fiberglass hot tub with plastic plumbing and one side of a circuit was placed in it I'd rather the other side wasn't until I got out.

That said I do not know how they affect a GFIC

 

[jennm]

The only fix for faulty equipment is repairing or replacing the faulty equipment.

Jenn

 

[rdnelson]

My take. Electricity doesn't hurt anything. Current flow does. As Grouper said, a probe completes the circuit allowing current to flow. That's when problems start. A properly working GFI gives much more protection.

How do the affect GFCI protection? In my opinion they would cause false tripping. Why? Because a GFCI device monitors an unbalanced current flow from the hot and the neutral as well as sensing any current flow on the ground. IMO, salt water in motion is an electrolyte. This creates a minute amount of voltage and current. You also have lighting above the water which causes a bit of induction. A ground probe would divert at least some current to the grounding system thereby causing the GFCI protection to trip.

Marlon, place a tester lead in the ground of the receptacle and the other lead in the tank. Bet you read some voltage. Do it with as many tanks as you can find. My bet is they all will read some voltage.

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[myreefclub0070]

JennM;1067744 wrote: The only fix for faulty equipment is repairing or replacing the faulty equipment.

Jenn

oooh no, not saying this is a fix for faulty equipment, just saying if you did have a fault this might be better than you getting zapped.

 

[myreefclub0070]

My take. Electricity doesn't hurt anything. Current flow does. As Grouper said, a probe completes the circuit allowing current to flow. That's when problems start. A properly working GFI gives much more protection.

How do the affect GFCI protection? In my opinion they would cause false tripping. Why? Because a GFCI device monitors an unbalanced current flow from the hot and the neutral as well as sensing any current flow on the ground. IMO, salt water in motion is an electrolyte. This creates a minute amount of voltage and current. You also have lighting above the water which causes a bit of induction. A ground probe would divert at least some current to the grounding system thereby causing the GFCI protection to trip.

Marlon, place a tester lead in the ground of the receptacle and the other lead in the tank. Bet you read some voltage. Do it with as many tanks as you can find. My bet is they all will read some voltage.

I'm sure every tank has some voltage in it due to magnetic fields (emf) from all the variety of equipment we have in our tanks, but don't you think you would want power to flow to the ground If there was a fault somewhere instead of throw you and keep in mind that it would act as a safety backup incase the gfci failed too.
I'm not siding anyway but looking to figure out if with or with out is better, so far i'm with, there has to be some research behind it for them to put them into production for sale.

 

[rdnelson]

No. I would rather it trip a GFI than flow thru the tank. While current flow takes the pathe of least resistance, it is spread inversely proportional to the impedance of the circuit. Think of parallel circuits. Current flows thru all legs of the circuit right? You would be in parallel with the ground probe so current would flow thru you. The only safe method is to open the circuit.

Ground probes give a false sense of security in my opinion. You have a probe, you think you are safe, so you think you can due without a GFI. Net result, you are at risk. JMO

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[black reef]

Got a new outlet for tank only. GFIC gives me a little more security when. Put my hand in the tank. Got shock before with the powerhead + malfunction heater.
It also protect the equipments from lightning too

 

[skriz]

No

 

[elfloyd]

GFIC does not protect from lightning strikes. I paid to have two Apex monitors and an Apex controller repaired because of lightning strikes.

 

[aslmx]

Yes. For your protection. You want the current flowing to the probe and not through you. The heck with the fish.

 

[grouper therapy]

aslmx;1067929 wrote: Yes. For your protection. You want the current flowing to the probe and not through you. The heck with the fish.

So how do you convince the current to flow through the probe and not you?

 

[myreefclub0070]

grounding probe video links :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRfwHAFAlTE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRfwHAFAlTE</a>

[IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh-ENey_PY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh-ENey_PY</a>

[IMG]http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vertex-titanium-grounding-pole.html">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vertex-titanium-grounding-pole.html</a>

 

[myreefclub0070]

you don't have to have bad equipment to have stray voltage (yes I said stray) in your tank, it can also be caused by the electro magnetic field (EMF) that just about every piece of equipment that runs on electricity put out.
if you did have stray voltage in your tank caused by EMF, your gfci would not trip and although it might not be a high voltage, it might just be enough to affect your corals.
current would prefer not to pass through our bodies if it has a better conductor (ground probe) to pass through.
if you had a short in your tank and no gfci and had on a good pair of insulated foot wear, you would never know if you put your hand in the water unless you touch something else that was grounded.

 

[rdnelson]

Unless the fish and coral are touching a grounded path, no current will flow thru them in the scenario you just described. Think of a bird sitting on a power line.

Again, the laws of physics do not support that the ground probe will prevent current from flowing through you. You will be in a parallel circuit. In a parallel circuit current will pass through all circuits inversely proportional to the impedance of that circuit.

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[grouper therapy]

you don't have to have bad equipment to have stray voltage (yes I said stray) in your tank, it can also be caused by the electro magnetic field (EMF) that just about every piece of equipment that runs on electricity put out.
if you did have stray voltage in your tank caused by EMF, your gfci would not trip and although it might not be a high voltage, it might just be enough to affect your corals.
current would prefer not to pass through our bodies if it has a better conductor (ground probe) to pass through.
if you had a short in your tank and no gfci and had on a good pair of insulated foot wear, you would never know if you put your hand in the water unless you touch something else that was grounded.[/so QUOTE]

So how does " stray" voltage leak? Regardless of the source for there to be any current a circuit must be closed. No? So how does the current get in the aquarium? If there is current then there must already be a ground. Right?

 

[rdnelson]

Here is an explanation of a parallel circuit. If you look part way down on the page, you will see how current is dispersed across a parallel circuit.

 

[grouper therapy]

rdnelson99;1067939 wrote: Unless the fish and coral are touching a grounded path, no current will flow thru them in the scenario you just described. Think of a bird sitting on a power line.

Again, the laws of physics do not support that the ground probe will prevent current from flowing through you. You will be in a parallel circuit. In a parallel circuit current will pass through all circuits inversely proportional to the impedance of that circuit.

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Exactly maybe less current will pass through but none the less it will pass through you if you are grounded.

 

[rdnelson]

MYREEFCLUB0070;1067933 wrote: grounding probe video links :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRfwHAFAlTE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRfwHAFAlTE</a>

[IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh-ENey_PY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh-ENey_PY</a>

[IMG]http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vertex-titanium-grounding-pole.html">http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vertex-titanium-grounding-pole.html</a>[/QUOTE]

While these guys may have strong credentials in keeping aquariums, I would ask what credentials they have in Electrical Theory and/or Physics. Not sure about you, but I would rather trust my safety to someone who is well versed in electrical safety.