Fing ICH AGIAN!

[enderg60]

Ok I had a tank crash last year and went through the process of putting every fish in hypo (1.014) for 2 months, bleached and acid dipped every last live rock. Bleached the sand, Dipped all the corals in iodide, interceptor and fresh water. Then set the system back up fishless for 3 months.

I added the remaining fish back to the system. All was good.

I got a blue tang which went into QT for 2 months with no sings of ich. I put him in the tank and a week later he is covered in ich.

I am extremely pissed off right now after going through all that to finally have a disease free tank and the first **** thing that happens is this.

What the hell did I do wrong?

Im trying to catch the blue tang now but do I have to catch all the fish again because that would mean a complete breakdown AGAIN.

 

[winkkle]

i believe hypo salinty needs to be much lower, like 1.008 to completly kill ich. So if you had it had 1.014 in the QT then chances are there was still ich in QT and on your fish. Then you reintroduced the fish back to the DT that still had the ich.

Edit: And no need for a breakdown. Keep the fish in QT for 2 months and treat them for 2 months. And leave the DT fallow for 2 months. Thats really the way to do it. No need to break down your tank. However, i wouldnt leave the fish in hypo that long as it may cause addtional stress so maybe look into a copper or something. This is all my .02

 

[saltloco]

Ppl may disagree with this but I've had a lot of success feeding with garlic guard by seachem. Just try and see what your outcome is. I soak it heavily before feeding. Seems to help cure up any probs I have pretty fast.

 

[rdnelson]

I agree with winkle but to clarify, when he says keep the "fish" in QT I believe he means keep "all fish" in QT. If one has it they all have it but may not show symptoms. If the display stays fallow for 6-8 weeks, the ich will not be able to survive because there is no host. As for how to treat in QT, I would reach out to JennM and/or Jmaneyapanda. They sometimes don't agree but both are excellent sources of info on these types of things. RippedTide would be another I would consult with.

 

[winkkle]

Thanks for cleaning up the loose ends . And as far as garlic and all that goes, it doesnt cure the ich. It keeps the fish eating and keeps the immune system up to fight off the parasites but the ich is still there and the fish will break out again. Remember just because they dont show signs, doesnt mean ich isnt in your tank.

 

[greggreenberg]

Kick iCh worked for me

 

[enderg60]

Sorry I mis typed Hypo was done at 1.010.

All fish were kept there for 2 months then added back to the system.

New fish was in hypo for a month and in QT for two months showing no signs of ich before being added back to the system.

I am not looking to cure this fish. I want to NEVER have ich in this tank. It is what crashed it last year and I will not even bother setting it back up if I cant keep it out completely!

 

[winkkle]

Well i still dont believe thats low enough. Ive always read/been told 1.008. And to completly rid ich you must QT and keep tank fallow for no less than 2 months because that is the life cycle of ich.

 

[rdnelson]

I am afraid you may be setting yourself up for failure if you say you will tear it down if you can't keep ich out of the system. I haven't been doing this long but one thing I have learned is you can manage it and use best precautions to minimize it but an ich free take is probably a moth. While I won't name names, some very knowledgable members have convinced me that the best course is to minimize the affects but help the fish beat it back through a strong immune system. Sometimes the treatments we use to try and rid the fish and system do more harm than good.

I have 3 tangs in my system. Two had bad cases of ich at one point but with continued help from me they beat it. Now I recently added the third and for a couple days it showed signs but the others didn't. The previous owner told me this tang had ich in the past so I felt it could fight it off once stress was removed. It has now been about a week and it is doing great.

 

[ralph atl]

go get yourself some Formalin and Metro/Focus Quick (don't use Formalin at the same time as the metro/focus).

Start giving Metro/focus asap......hopefully that does the trick, and if not, you'll have Formalin on hand for Plan B.

 

[acroholic]

Daniel,
Wouldn't a properly sized UV take care of the issue and kill the ich during the free swimming stage? I've been thinking of adding one to my 465 gallon system as a safeguard since I have a pretty decent fish load now. Been looking at these in either the 120 or 150 watt range. From Mojo's UV thread, The 150 watt model at about 450 gph should give an excellent kill of marine ich at about 1x system volume through the UV an hour. I think I have about 440 net gallons in the system. These UVs can be purchased for much less than the price on the website below.

 

[miami dolfan]

Acroholic;815207 wrote: Daniel,
Wouldn't a properly sized UV take care of the issue and kill the ich during the free swimming stage? I've been thinking of adding one to my 465 gallon system as a safeguard since I have a pretty decent fish load now. Been looking at these in either the 120 or 150 watt range. From Mojo's UV thread, The 150 watt model at about 450 gph should give an excellent kill of marine ich at about 1x system volume through the UV an hour. I think I have about 440 net gallons in the system. These UVs can be purchased for much less than the price on the website below.

http://www.emperoraquatics-aquarium.com/smarthouv.php">http://www.emperoraquatics-aquarium.com/smarthouv.php</a>[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. I used to get it in my tank frquently and when I up'ed my UV to a 36 watt, it seems to have done the trick. I also have a cleaner wrasse which helps keep it off the tangs. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I know the frustration it can cause.

 

[ichthyoid]

National Fish Pharmaceuticals sells quinine sulfate online. It works.

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Wow, Man. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I'm about 1 month behind you. My DT is 1 month away from a 10 week fallow period. I had to break it down twice and move 180 pounds of LR to catch all of the fish. In the course of my tank crash, I lost a niger, kole tang, sailfin tang, 2 clowns, a blenny (I've lost track at this time). The only fish that survived were my cheap gobies. I've now re-stocked and have all fish planned to go into back into my 120g DT after the fallow period are in a 55g QT. I've lost a swallowtail angel, and my current swallowtail has ich in my QT threatening to infect all of my current QT fish. Dang, I hate ich!!!

With one month left for fallow, I am currently treating my QT fish and tank with coppersafe in hopes that they will be ich free at the same time that my DT finishes it's fallow period. I have to draw the line somewhere, and will not set up a QT tank for my QT tank. I am already running 3 tanks right now.

I have given up on tangs although they are my favorite SW fish. If I get ich again, I may go back to the boring FW side of this hobby.

Wish I had some advice to deliver. Unfortunately, I can only let you know that you are not alone...

Best of luck!!! You have come to the right place. Plenty of knowledgeable people here. Keep us posted...

 

[seth the wine guy]

I think ich is like back pain. You never get rid of it really, you just manage it. After having a tank wiped out by ich over a year ago I said never again. I slapped an Emperor 80w HO UV on my system and haven't had a single fish loss from ich since. My Powder Blue will show signs now and then but never an issue.
Water clarity is insane too!

 

[enderg60]

I have a UV on the system, I even have Ozone on the system. I just cant figure out why after so much planning and so much time I still end up getting ich within ONE WEEK.

I spent a year making sure I wouldnt get ANYTHING in this tank this time. A **** YEAR

 

[jmaneyapanda]

EnderG60;815309 wrote: I have a UV on the system, I even have Ozone on the system. I just cant figure out why after so much planning and so much time I still end up getting ich within ONE WEEK.

I spent a year making sure I wouldnt get ANYTHING in this tank this time. A **** YEAR

FYI- we typically don't add enough ozone to have a germicidal affect on pathogens. And what uv wattage/exposure?

In your situation, is sounds exactly as if that fish has been harboring the parasite all along. A treatment such as copper or quinine sulfate may be the most feasible rationale for eradicating that parasite.

 

[enderg60]

57w uv running at 300gph

300 mg/hr ozone unit with a custom reactor controlled to ORP of 400

 

[jswizzle]

I'm treating a clown right now with cuppermine. It's supposed to not be as toxic as straight up copper. And I agree with the others on the hypo in that I believe it wasn't low enough. Also I have heard that hypo is not always as effective as copper/cuppermine. Ich is definitely a pain in the but!

 

[ichthyoid]

FWIW-

I like quinine sulfate because it is well tolerated by the fish.

Using toxic metals, like copper, takes a toll on the fish (liver in particular). I don't care how it's chelated (made less toxic?), it's still like chemotherapy. I.E.- You need to give enough to kill the parasites, but not so much that you kill the fish.

Quinine is very specific, to the parasite itself. If you profilactically treat ALL fish, while your tank lays fallow for 6+ weeks, then there should be no vector path for infection. I have found this to be the case.

Going forward, you would also treat any new fish, prior to it being added to your system.

I have also found quinine to be compatible with the antibiotics I used, such as Maracyn I & II.

Merely keeping a fish in QT (quarantine) does not guaranty the parasites are no longer present. They are often still there, albeit in low numbers.

There is evidence from research, that fish previously infected, build up some immunity (if they survive

A little trivia-
Quinine compounds are traditional treatments for malaria. Tonic water is made with quinine, and was adopted to combat the malaria parasite in colonial days. It was mixed with gin (and sugar) in drinks, thus receiving a daily dose for a 'constant serum level' in the blood. Hence, the gin & tonic.