Lighting: 250w SE, MH vs. 150w DE HQI MH

[reeftourist]

This has been weighing on my mind all weekend...
In setting up my first ever aqarium, a 90g reef tank, I tried to find a middle ground of lighting setups between something that's workable for SPS/Clams, and the expense of buying the sun .

At the time I found a great deal on an OuterOrbit fixture (2x150w HQI DE MH w/ 2x130w dual PC actinics) that saved me quite a bit of $$, and who wouldn't go for that when starting a hobby. I considered it to be the bare minimum (ok, hoped it was :unsure for keeping some SPS/Clams as long as I placed them higher in the tank.

Rationale: From what I've read double-ended (DE) HQI Metal Halides of lower wattages rival the higher-wattage single-ended versions. So that perhaps I'd be getting somewhere between the PAR of a 175-250w SE setup with my 150w DE setup. So far the few 250w setups I've seen look very similar in intensity to mine as far as I can tell.

Can someone confirm if this is true? Now that I'm going stronger than ever in this hobby should I consider upgrading asap, or can I ride this setup for awhile... possibly until I upgrade to a larger tank

Also, I'm wondering if I would shoot myself in the foot if I switched to a 14k bulb from the 10ks that are in there now. In other words, with the lower wattage are the yellower 10ks a must for those SPS/Clams?

Thanks, all.

 

[schwaggs]

Take a look at this site for information on the PAR of various lighting configurations. I think you will need to stick to 10Ks or upgrade to 250W if you want 14K if you want to keep certain SPS and certain clams. From the info on this site, you will see there is quite a difference in PAR between 10 and 14K bulbs.

Also, keep in mind that our eyes cannot tell the diffference in PAR, which is what matters to our animals...

 

[george]

My opinion:

If your 90g tank is a standard 48"x18" foot print, that means it's 24" deep. If you want SPS/Clams, I think that 150w is way too little unless you want to confine all your sps and clams to the top few inches of your tank. SPS love fairly intense light, but the majority of clams do best under an almost scalding level of light.

I'm not saying you can't keep clams and SPS under the 150w fixture you mentioned. I'm sure it can be done. I am just saying I think you will get alot better results with some 250w DE (or SE) than the 150's.

 

[george]

Oops. I re-read your post and realized you have bought this fixture, not debating it.

I can speak confidently about the clams (there are far better SPS authorities here than I am): Yes, you're fine as long as you keep them high in the tank and the light low on the tank. With clams (exept Derasa's and Squamosa), intensity is the key. You won't get "migrating clams" if you keep the light intense enough and the water current indirect. The exception to that is Derasa clams that like to be on the substrate, but they're also much lower in lighting requirements than Maximas or Croceas, so they should do fine.

 

[showtime305]

You are better off running the 10k bulbs until you can upgrade to the 250's.

 

[george]

You'd have to confirm with someone like Doug at Reef Tank Lighting, but I think the bulb size difference between 150w and 250w HQI is relatively small, so you could probably eventually DIY upgrade the fixture to 250w, depending on how it's put together. I am planning to DIY one of my Reefstar fixtures from 250w to 400w in a similar manner, though it's just a single bulb fixture.

I'd check with Current USA first, though, to see if the wiring inside is up to snuff. Hamilton said they use the same wiring/housing for all their Reefstar systems so the 400w job would just be a small move of the pins and a new ballast.

 

[reeftourist]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I bought the fixure about a year ago when I was just starting the hobby. I knew it was on the low side of what I wanted to keep, but it was worth saving $700 to make sure I'd still be into the hobby before spending more on the "perfect" setup.

I found a FAQ on wetwebmedia where they recommended 150w DE HQIs over a SE 175w for a similar setup, so that makes me feel a little better for the time being.:blush:
I agree about keeping the 10k's on this wattage, so I will continue to run them until I can upgrade to 250s... anyone have a good 2x250w fixture or retro w/ actinics for sale? :up:

I had a summer job as an electrician in HS, and can wire up lights no problem. Anything special about wiring up magnetic/electronic ballasts vs. your standard home strip light ballasts?

The PAR site won't open for me. Is there another site to check out?

...thoughts of a chiller are creeping in...

 

[reeftourist]

George wrote: You'd have to confirm with someone like Doug at Reef Tank Lighting, but I think the bulb size difference between 150w and 250w HQI is relatively small, so you could probably eventually DIY upgrade the fixture to 250w, depending on how it's put together. I am planning to DIY one of my Reefstar fixtures from 250w to 400w in a similar manner, though it's just a single bulb fixture.

I'd check with Current USA first, though, to see if the wiring inside is up to snuff. Hamilton said they use the same wiring/housing for all their Reefstar systems so the 400w job would just be a small move of the pins and a new ballast.

I know the bulb sockets are different... earlier today I ran across a blog from another ARC member who tried to upgrade the OuterOrbit to 250s, but it looked like he gave up when he compared bulb sizes/sockets. Perhaps I'll contact Current USA tonight. Thanks for the support and ideas, George.

 

[showtime305]

ReefTourist wrote: ...thoughts of a chiller are creeping in...

There are many reefers that run halides without chillers. I ran 384 watt PC light fixture sitting directly on my tank with a fan blowing air into my canopy and I kept my tank at 78 with ease. I had to set my ReefKeeper to turn my heater on a 77.9 degree to stop it from going lower. That one fan cooled the tank so well that the sump fan never turned on. I just added my halides to my fixture today, so in the next few weeks I'll see if my fans can handle the job.

 

[schwaggs]

I wouldn't reccomend upgrading a fixture designed for 150HQI to 250HQI. The bulbs are physically bigger plus you have the additional heat to worry about. 250HQI and up use the same socket.

The link works for me... :confused2:

 

[george]

ReefTourist wrote: I know the bulb sockets are different... earlier today I ran across a blog from another ARC member who tried to upgrade the OuterOrbit to 250s, but it looked like he gave up when he compared bulb sizes/sockets. Perhaps I'll contact Current USA tonight. Thanks for the support and ideas, George.

Doug sells the sockets you'd need. My concern (as it was for my project with the Reefstars) is the wiring, housing, and other bulbs & wiring taking the increased heat, power, etc. If the same company makes a similar hood with 250's, they probably wire them all the same, but always safest to check first.

Shwaggs, I completely agree. My thought was that the company may use the same enclosure to do 250's in which case it's a small matter to DIY upgrade. The bulbs, from what I can tell, are only about a 1/4" longer, but that was only on comparing Ushio bulbs which were the only ones I could find lengths for. I would assume all 150w DE bulbs are the same size.

 

[reeftourist]

I agree as well. I don't believe they make a 250 version, but I emailed their support just to check if they think it would handle it. I doubt they will say it's ok, and that would rule the diy upgrade out in this case.

 

[reeftourist]

Looks like DIY is back in the picture! Here's the reply from Current USA:

"The wiring that is installed in the Outer Orbit 150w fixtures is designed
for use with electronic ballasts, so if you use a 250w electronic ballast,
you should be fine.

There should be enough room for mounting 250w HQI lamps - we already sell
this fixture in 250w and it is very similar to the 150w."

So I suppose my DIY upgrade component list goes something like this:
2x250w HQI bulbs
2x250w HQI brackets & endcaps
2x250w electronic ballasts
and perhaps some upgraded exhaust fans :up:
Thoughts?

 

[george]

Excellent news. For your parts list, there's not really any brackets and endcaps. There's a larger socket/clip set that you'll have to mount in the hood. Might require you to drill new holes, but can't say for sure.

Believe it or not, I'm not paid by Doug at Reeftanklighting.com, but he's very helpful and knowledgable on stuff like this, so I'd drop him an e-mail on the "Contact Us" section of his website.

 

[schwaggs]

George wrote: Excellent news. For your parts list, there's not really any brackets and endcaps. There's a larger socket/clip set...

You say tomato, I say tomato...

He says bracket and endcap, you say clip and socket. The point is the best way to DIY HQI is to get a bracket/endcap or clip/socket setup that has both ends physically mounted so they are spaced properly.

In other words, get this: http://www.hellolights.com/25hqisopaw.html">http://www.hellolights.com/25hqisopaw.html</a>

NOT this: [IMG]http://www.hellolights.com/25hqilamhol.html">http://www.hellolights.com/25hqilamhol.html</a>

The first item comes with a bracket that sets the spacing of the socket (do you like how I used one of each of your descriptors? :) ). This makes mounting the assembly a cinch and you won't risk getting the alignment wrong which could cause you to break a bulb or worse...

 

[reeftourist]

Right, I understand. Trying to get the spacing correct without the bracket/clip would be difficult.
I sent a message to Doug to see if he had any input. Thanks for the recommendations.
Fingers-crossed that I don't ruin the fixture if I try it.