More of a revolving door than a fast growing market

[tonymission]

I disagree with a lot of what was originally posted. It's a bit simplistic. Even with the best product, which takes a lot of money to make attractive enough to sell to the masses, there's so much more than just "everyone will buy it". Can't just get "the right tools" and knock off bubble king. There is so much depth to business of that level. Companies are already doing that. You think they don't crunch numbers non stop on "the balance of profit and volume". That's a necessary concept and they believe they're selling their product(s) at that sweet spot.
In order for Felix/Reef Savvy to consistently deliver quality, he has to do it himself. His time is worth a lot because there's only one of him. Class cages has people doing assembly for them without the same passion for the result as Felix. Lower value on their time and a cheaper tank.
There are Vortechs and Jabeos, something for everyone. This is already going on in all sub sectors of the industry.

I just don't think ecotech and reef savvys of the world are going anywhere because stubbornness or lack of market understanding. They know what they're doing and if someone was able to knock them off easily, it'd be happening.

 

[rdnelson]

Brandon I understand your frustration but I am a bit perplexed. You seem bewildered that companies take advantage of a strong market share. Ever watch movies? Why do Tom Hanks and Danzel Washington get paid so much? Because people will flock to any movie they headline. They are at the top of there profession. Even though Tom Hanks will stand in front of a camera and defend the poor and preach about how we all should take care of them he still demands millions or he won't work. Why is it ok for him but not for these companies? I choose not to spend $400 or close to it on a pump but if they can get it, more power to them.

 

[snowmansnow]

rdnelson99;983614 wrote: Brandon I understand your frustration but I am a bit perplexed. You seem bewildered that companies take advantage of a strong market share. Ever watch movies? Why do Tom Hanks and Danzel Washington get paid so much? Because people will flock to any movie they headline. They are at the top of there profession. Even though Tom Hanks will stand in front of a camera and defend the poor and preach about how we all should take care of them he still demands millions or he won't work. Why is it ok for him but not for these companies? I choose not to spend $400 or close to it on a pump but if they can get it, more power to them.

maybe i've been misunderstood.. I've posted several times thats I'm all for companies making money... i mean.. im one who DOES buy some of these products... and honestly outside of a weird incident it DID help the health of my tank (the great equipment).

I'll continue to buy great equipment, and thus remain part of the problem I suppose, and this doesn't help the issue I know.

Yes there will always be premium priced goods, but as they become more readily attainable, and tech makes things cheaper and quicker I expect things to drop.

reefing isn't for everyone.. i do get that.. but I say again... someone is going to make a HUGE killing when they take some available tech, a little elbow grease, and a different business model and produce some really great products without the big names being printed on them. I in NO WAY mean that our sponsors don't work hard, or try to do the best they can, but most of our sponsors are retailers who make money off of selling something that someone has sold them... and they are just doing what they can.

Think ecotech isn't sweating because of knock offs right now? The only thing saving them is that they patented some of the key components of the MP series. Those knockoffs are awfully close. Give them a better controller, and a few other tweaks and they will be serious competitors.

Again, I DO support our sponsors and local business when at ALL possible, and I hope I've not offended anyone.

B

 

[snowmansnow]

I'm just thinking through this on ARC btw I guess knowing I'll be setting up a new tank in the near future has be contemplating my systematic process of the whole thing.

B

 

[paul692]

I know how you feel just go to a sporting event you don't want to own the team just enjoy the game but you still pay $10 or $15 for a beer and five dollars for a hotdog

 

[snowmansnow]

paul692;983620 wrote: I know how you feel just go to a sporting event you don't want to own the team just enjoy the game but you still pay $10 or $15 for a beer and five dollars for a hotdog

I no longer go to those events haha.. and thus another patron is lost..

 

[tonymission]

So everyone had vortechs before the knock offs came around?
I don't think ecotech is sweating it at all. They're two separate markets. I bet Hydor and those price points care more about the knock offs than ecotech does.

 

[snowmansnow]

tonymission;983622 wrote: So everyone had vortechs before the knock offs came around?
I don't think ecotech is sweating it at all. They're two separate markets. I bet Hydor and those price points care more about the knock offs than ecotech does.

I did, and I'm sure there were plenty of others that did. The knock offs aren't as well made, but I expect them to catch up soon.

 

[paul692]

Mcdonalds and Wendy's make plenty I want my 15.00 dollars per hour right now or I quit LOL

 

[snowmansnow]

Wendys makes some of the best tasting burgers in the business.. why don't they quadruple the price?

because competition exists that can do close to the same thing and will do it cheaper in order to sale more units.

 

[tonymission]

SnowManSnow;983636 wrote: Wendys makes some of the best tasting burgers in the business.. why don't they quadruple the price?

because competition exists that can do close to the same thing and will do it cheaper in order to sale more units.

Anybody can make a burger. Making a BK (not Burger King) killer isn't quite as easy.

And let's be honest-- Wendys is good but I can think of a ton of other places id rather have a burger from. It's still up there in the fast food market.

 

[sn4k33y3z]

First off, I agree with the economics that Sea Atlanta and Acroholic have pointed out. That IS the beauty of this country.

Secondly, and more on point I think with your OP. You do NEED to consider economics, as this drives everything you've pointed out.

I like to use this analogy. Take Kroger for example. Kroger has the "Kroger Plus Card" for you the "customer" to utilize and save on purchases. This idea/thought is brilliant marketing. If we shop there and purchase the select items we "save money" right??? Wrong! You don't save anything... Kroger (or anyone else for that matter) didn't design the "plus card" for you to save money. They designed it to control and understand market share.

Let's face it, everyone that uses the "Kroger Plus card" drives up the cost on the said purchased goods. Kroger uses that data to determine which products to raise the price on. We the consumer PROVIDE this company(others alike) this data. However, you won't and neither will I ignore the $1.00 items that aren't moving off the shelves quick enough. Remember those awesome flavored Kroger brand 1 liter soda waters that use to cost 55 cents? Well those are $1.10 now.

Long of the short of it is, we the hobbyist dictate all these things. If no one spends $800 on a light, the company wouldn't be in business period. That goes for coral too.

 

[paul692]

One of the problems with ecotech and many others maxspect AI is there is not any competition they set the price and everybody pays the same in most cases.you can buy online and usually get free shipping and no sales tax but that's about it.let the market be open and have some competition so everybody gets a fair deal

 

[acroholic]

paul692;983649 wrote: One of the problems with ecotech and many others maxspect AI is there is not any competition they set the price and everybody pays the same in most cases.you can buy online and usually get free shipping and no sales tax but that's about it.let the market be open and have some competition so everybody gets a fair deal

I don't understand. Who is keeping the competition out? No one. No one has a monopoly in the LED or any other equipment segment of the reef hobby.

If you gave me 20 minutes, I could probably find and name 15-20 different companies making LED lights for the reef hobby. I'd call that competition, wouldn't you?

 

[northgahillbilly]

I think one factor that I haven't seen mentioned yet is "snob appeal", now Im not trying to argue value of X piece of equipment, nor am I saying anyone IS a snob. But this hobby is a LUXURY hobby, as brought up before. People don't buy BMWs JUST because there great cars, tho I'm sure they are, there's also something to be said for being SEEN in a BMW. Equipment also carries an aura of luxury, as does the hobby its self.

 

[paul692]

I'm talking about competition between the same product at two different stores eco-tech will not allow see Atlanta to sell it cheaper than the fish store but Walmart is allowed to sell a bottle of Heinz catsup cheaper than Kroger if they want to Heinz Will let them do that. Eco-tech will not they set the price across-the-board for all stores

 

[paul692]

Even big drug companies allow walmart to sell their prescriptions cheaper than other pharmacies and stores.even though the drug companies have millions invested in advertisement and r&d .why should other companies like Eco-tech and the like have such privileges to set a price for stores that sell there products and want to compete locally for your business

 

[rdnelson]

paul692;983656 wrote: Even big drug companies allow walmart to sell their prescriptions cheaper than other pharmacies and stores.even though the drug companies have millions invested in advertisement and r&d .why should other companies like Eco-tech and the like have such privileges to set a price for stores that sell there products and want to compete locally for your business

Because they can.

 

[tonymission]

rdnelson99;983660 wrote: Because they can.

And typically only industry leaders CAN. There's something to be said for being the best in your space. When someone dethrones them then they lose the leverage to dictate.

 

[acroholic]

paul692;983655 wrote: I'm talking about competition between the same product at two different stores eco-tech will not allow see Atlanta to sell it cheaper than the fish store but Walmart is allowed to sell a bottle of Heinz catsup cheaper than Kroger if they want to Heinz Will let them do that. Eco-tech will not they set the price across-the-board for all stores

OK. Well, regardless of MAP pricing debates, the consumer dictates what they buy at the price they buy at. There are plenty of LED choices for someone wanting that technology. I don't believe in MAP pricing either, but it is nothing new and a very common practice throughout many industries. If MAP was such a bother for buyers, EcoTech would not be selling Radions.

I would guess EcoTech uses MAP to maintain brand image and perception more than anything else. I know a bit about their retailer price policy, and believe me, they would sell more without MAP. And for retailers, the more they buy from EcoTech, the more they make per unit. But EcoTech probably does not care about that quite as much as overall brand perception, and does not want to be known as an LED discounter.