More of a revolving door than a fast growing market
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Exactly. MAP pricing protects their retail distribution; the very people who educate on their product and are usually the consumer's first exposure to it.
As a former retail store owner, we would have been crushed by online stores without MAP.
HockeyMonkey.com buys so many sticks that they can push into the 10-12% wholesale discount category. We could never have matched that, so the suppliers institute that minimum price to protect the local merchants from getting steam rolled. (It also serves to protect the 'prestige' of their product)
HockeyMonkey.com buys so many sticks that they can push into the 10-12% wholesale discount category. We could never have matched that, so the suppliers institute that minimum price to protect the local merchants from getting steam rolled. (It also serves to protect the 'prestige' of their product)
Wow a lot of writing and reading here so I'll make my opinion known in short;
I totally agree with post 17. As Dave said with "facts" I'll say, you DO get what you pay for.
IMHO Eco-Tech is expensive because they are the best in every arena. They go 110% to make their customers 100% satisfied. I say this after owning their lights and power heads for 3 years.
Sure it hurt to fork out the cash at the time (I bought new) but I didn't buy twice....
I totally agree with post 17. As Dave said with "facts" I'll say, you DO get what you pay for.
IMHO Eco-Tech is expensive because they are the best in every arena. They go 110% to make their customers 100% satisfied. I say this after owning their lights and power heads for 3 years.
Sure it hurt to fork out the cash at the time (I bought new) but I didn't buy twice....
I didn't stock Ecotech. I'd order it in for somebody who wanted it, but it was not worth my while to keep it on the shelf. MAP is nice but the wholesale price didn't afford a margin that made the products worthy of renting shelf space.
Furthermore, while the product price was the same for online or brick and mortar, there's that pesky sales tax. Since most etailers would provide free shipping on such high-dollar products, that was a wash, but then the brick and mortar has to charge tax. So no matter what, anyone wanting to buy from me, was paying an extra 6% - and not money I'd get to keep, that was me being the state's tax collector.
Brandon, you have mentioned several times that 'somebody' needs to come up with a line of comparable products, at a cheaper price and they'd make a killing.
I disagree. Ever heard the term, "work smarter, not harder?"
Why would anyone want to work harder, for less money, than their counterpart?
Joe paints houses. Joe charges $500 to paint the outside of a 1500 square foot house. He paints 2 a week.
Fred charges $250 but has to paint 4 houses a week to make the same money that Joe does. More people are calling Fred because his price is cheaper...
If Joe and Fred have employees, who do you think is paid better? Who is more likely to have better quality workmanship? If Fred's rushing to get 'em all done, maybe he starts cutting corners.
Or how about this; your boss comes to you and tells you he's letting you go because he found somebody else to do your job for $10K/yr less.
The price of goods and services comes down to what the people are 'worth' who make or provide them - whether it's manufacturing, research & development, sales, marketing etc.
My old mechanic back home used to have a sign over his back counter that said, "The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten."
Yep, it's a free country. Yep it's a free market. If somebody can charge an arm and a leg for a widget, and people will pay it, more power to them.
On the flip side of that, if you feel it's over-priced, don't buy it. There's something out there on the market that accomplishes the same thing, that's cheaper.
LEDs - they aren't all created equal (even some of the uber expensive ones aren't all that, IMO) and the market is flooded right now with Johnny-come-lately sellers but like with everything else, the market will weed out the junk, through consumer trial and error.
A producer can set the worth of anything but if the consumer doesn't agree, something changes - either the price changes, or the product or service does.
Jenn
Furthermore, while the product price was the same for online or brick and mortar, there's that pesky sales tax. Since most etailers would provide free shipping on such high-dollar products, that was a wash, but then the brick and mortar has to charge tax. So no matter what, anyone wanting to buy from me, was paying an extra 6% - and not money I'd get to keep, that was me being the state's tax collector.
Brandon, you have mentioned several times that 'somebody' needs to come up with a line of comparable products, at a cheaper price and they'd make a killing.
I disagree. Ever heard the term, "work smarter, not harder?"
Why would anyone want to work harder, for less money, than their counterpart?
Joe paints houses. Joe charges $500 to paint the outside of a 1500 square foot house. He paints 2 a week.
Fred charges $250 but has to paint 4 houses a week to make the same money that Joe does. More people are calling Fred because his price is cheaper...
If Joe and Fred have employees, who do you think is paid better? Who is more likely to have better quality workmanship? If Fred's rushing to get 'em all done, maybe he starts cutting corners.
Or how about this; your boss comes to you and tells you he's letting you go because he found somebody else to do your job for $10K/yr less.
The price of goods and services comes down to what the people are 'worth' who make or provide them - whether it's manufacturing, research & development, sales, marketing etc.
My old mechanic back home used to have a sign over his back counter that said, "The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweet price is forgotten."
Yep, it's a free country. Yep it's a free market. If somebody can charge an arm and a leg for a widget, and people will pay it, more power to them.
On the flip side of that, if you feel it's over-priced, don't buy it. There's something out there on the market that accomplishes the same thing, that's cheaper.
LEDs - they aren't all created equal (even some of the uber expensive ones aren't all that, IMO) and the market is flooded right now with Johnny-come-lately sellers but like with everything else, the market will weed out the junk, through consumer trial and error.
A producer can set the worth of anything but if the consumer doesn't agree, something changes - either the price changes, or the product or service does.
Jenn
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I agree with Dave here...I have had 2 MP40's going on 4-5 years (and a MP10 going on my new tank-not installed now) with 2 battery backups (replaced 1 not too long ago), and those are one of the best pieces of equipment that I have ever owned, and Save is the one that convinced me that they were soooo much better than my Tunzes. He was correct. Thanks again Dave!
I'm sure there are some people who buy cars, and reef equipment, for bragging rights. But there are also plenty of people who buy stuff simply because it's what they want and they can afford it. I know personally I could care less what someone else thinks of what I drive, the size of my TV, the size of my tank, etc... I buy that stuff for me and my satisfaction, not to show off to others. Even when someone buys a new reef toy and comes on here and posts it. It doesn't mean they're bragging. They're likely sharing their excitement with others who understand them and will share in that excitement.
Like when a friend bought a Z06 Vette a few years ago. He didn't send me a pic to make me envious. He sent it because he knew I'd appreciate it and be happy for him.
skriz
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SnowManSnow;983535 wrote: Before anyone reads this, understand that this is just my opinion, and I'm not bashing anyone. I don't have anything against any sponsors, or anyone else, and will continue to support them as long as I can afford it.
I'm currently between tanks, and it gives me a platform to see things in a light I couldn't while in the throws of a reef tank.
If you don't mind a long post then read on.
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____Seth TWG made a comment in another thread that the reef hobby is more of a revolving door than a fast growing market. The thread was concerned with a price drop with Ecotech pumps.
I DO AGREE with the statement, but it is unsettling. If this is true then as aquarists revolve out the market will starve as the left over won't be able to support the companies that are asking crazy high prices for their products.
Without an adequate influx of NEW people into the hobby the only option will be for companies like Ecotech to finally drop prices, and do it dramatically.Otherwise, the hobby won't survive.
Honestly, why in the WORLD is a MP40 worth $375? It is because they SAY it is. It isn't complicated, it isn't built particularly well, and it doesn't take a lot of RD to develop it.
It won't be long before someone sees what is happening, takes the bull by the horns, develops a line of products that is just as good but substantially cheaper, opens a store and drives these companies out of business.
Really, I think it could happen right now. Take the actual aquariums for example. I've been shopping for tanks and am floored at how MUCH a good aquarium costs. I'm not knocking any sponsors, or anyone else, and realize there IS overhead BUT.... I was quoted almost $2,000.00 for a 48x24x16 tank. Seriously? At that price this company will grab a SMALL percentage of the market. I realize you do pay for quality, but let's make a quality tank that size, charge $4 or $500 dollars for it, give it a few years for the word to spread, and grab a HUGE market share. Its a few slabs of glass glued together... not rocket science.
Another example is the skimmer "industry". I have a BK200 mini and paid a lot of cash for it because I wanted the best, but realize that someone with the correct tools could do the SAME exact thing for half or a third of the price, and before you know it most everyone in the hobby would have one.
Here's the point of the whole thing. In order for the hobby to survive long term, and ultimately to grow past the slim % of people who can afford to stay in it long term, companies will HAVE to make some changes.
Although the hobby has been around a while, I still think we are in the boom of technology for it, and companies are charging whatever they want because no one else has the tech... but this is changing.
Online superstores WILL drive premium stores out of business despite the few of us who are loyal to LFS, if someone doesn't "get it" soon.
I'm looking forward to the day when I can get the something that performs like a BK200 for $400. A great tank for <$500, a stinking water mover for $200, and lights (seriously... its just light) for <$300.
Right now "you get what you pay for" may be true, but the days be companies being able to push that is coming to an end fast, and they had better see the big picture or they will be finding another budding hobby to own a timed monopoly on.
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This just isn't how capitalism works. Junk is cheap. Quality comes at a cost. Quality consists of not only the materials, but also the people making those products. The best and the brightest don't work for cheap, so their salaries will be reflected in the products. Add cheap staff to the mix, and you no longer have that same quality.
I think you meant "low end stores" here.
skriz
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People buy quality because of the quality. A BMW comes with a certain level of quality AND service. That's why people buy them. A very tiny percentage of people will buy stuff for that snob appeal, but it's negligible and not something to build a business around.
For instance, I look awesome in everything I drive. I buy nice cars because they last, they perform really well, the dealers provide service that's second to none, and I LOVE every minute behind the wheel. I've had cars that got me from A to B, but I want more than that now. So, my options are limited to the brands that can provide that and they just so happen to be the higher end brands. Heck, I tried desperately to buy a Buick a couple of years ago. I just couldn't get over how cheap the interior is. A real shame as I liked the looks and the layout (Enclave).
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