Phosphates and SPS - help from the mixed reef and SPS experts

[seth the wine guy]

The growth pattern of that slimer alone tells me there's not enough flow there. You acro's will grow into much tighter formations with good flow. Long stringy stalks like that are a big tip off. Corals will appear to grow slower with great flow but they grow so much thicker and denser. Can't say if flow has anything to do with the original topic issue.

 

[acroholic]

Also, here is a tidbit for anyone that read that Reef Central thread I linked to about the nice looking tank with uber high phosphates. The guy who has that tank is from the San Fran bay area, and in his Reef Central signature he states he has a 212,000 gallon tank at the office, which means he works at the Steinhart Aquarium in Golden Gate Park, so he is a professional aquarist.

 

[kirkwood]

Seth The Wine Guy;927634 wrote: The growth pattern of that slimer alone tells me there's not enough flow there. You acro's will grow into much tighter formations with good flow. Long stringy stalks like that are a big tip off. Corals will appear to grow slower with great flow but they grow so much thicker and denser. Can't say if flow has anything to do with the original topic issue.

Thanks Seth. This observation really made me take a better look at my tank and I really think you are right about a flow issue. Dave's comment about switching from Tunze to Vortech helping his SPS also made me think about it.

I think I'm going to add a pair of WP40's hook them up to my dimming ports on the Reef Angel to really get my flow cranking.

I did test my phosphates yesterday and they read 0.00 on the Hannah. That was 2 cups of BRS bulk GFO. I am going to recheck phosphates again tonight, but can that amount of GFO absorb 0.06 phosphates from ~120 gallons of water in ~5 days??

 

[kirkwood]

I tested Phosphates again last night and got 0.02.

I ordered 2 WP40's with Reef Angel cables yesterday. Lets see what lower Phos levels along with MUCH improved flow does for my SPS.

 

[ralph atl]

Kirkwood;929083 wrote: I tested Phosphates again last night and got 0.02.

I ordered 2 WP40's with Reef Angel cables yesterday. Lets see what lower Phos levels along with MUCH improved flow does for my SPS.

it should improve dramatically!

it might take a month or 2 to see results, however.

 

[kirkwood]

mysterybox;929114 wrote: it should improve dramatically!

it might take a month or 2 to see results, however.

you mean from the flow or the lower PO4 level? i think I will benefit also from keeping my PO4 as stable as possible and prevent swings. I will attain this by being diligent with my GFO changes. Although Ralph, I can't commit to a weekly change like you!!!

p.s. thorughout all this the Red Dragon I got from you shows both encrusting and upward growth and has consistently shown PE every day. I have it positioned only 1/4er of the way up the tank in a moderate to lower flow area. It is getting about 200-250 PAR, which it seems happy with. When the new WP40s go in it will get a lot more flow and I hope it responds with faster calcification.

 

[kirkwood]

Here's the update:

I tested last night.. Nitrates were 0 on ELOS low range kit (maybe like 0.10 -0.20 to err on the side of caution)... Phosphate on hanna were 0.00 so that means they could be as high as 0.04 given the standard deviation on the unit. I tested with brand new reagent that has an expiration date of 2016.. I also changed out my BRS Lignite carbon and used a little over 1 cup (i'm going to use less now and look to change every 2 weeks)

with the low Phosphate reading I still have not seen a reason to change out my GFO... I will test again later this week, but my plan is to change my 2 cups of BRS bulk GFO with 1 cup and then stay on that cycle every 2 weeks... that will allow me to alternate each week changing between carbon and GFO.

I added a frag of ASD Rainbow millie this weekend... starting it on the sandbed in around 200ish par... PE has decreased since first adding it to the tank..

WP40s still aren't here yet and this bad weather isn't gonna get them here any faster... they were supposed to arrive Thursday...

 

[mikesmith34]

Im following along here. Im having almost the same exact experience as you are. The exception being I started CD about 5 weeks ago. Sticks seemed to respond Z's not so much...they melted

 

[ringo®]

Hate to be the raincloud, but if your zoas are dying from carbon dosing, something in the equation is wrong.

 

[mikesmith34]

Ringo®;930697 wrote: Hate to be the raincloud, but if your zoas are dying from carbon dosing, something in the equation is wrong.

You are 100% correct. Still trying to get a handle on the answer. Im OK now but something happened I just dont know what. I have 2 threads about it trying to get a handle on it back then. Im not saying it was the CD that did it, only it happened during CD. With that said my Z's do not seem to be as happy with ULN water. At least I'm not losing any now.

 

[kirkwood]

Mikesmith34;930704 wrote: You are 100% correct. Still trying to get a handle on the answer. Im OK now but something happened I just dont know what. I have 2 threads about it trying to get a handle on it back then. Im not saying it was the CD that did it, only it happened during CD. With that said my Z's do not seem to be as happy with ULN water. At least I'm not losing any now.

if you followed along with my phosphate readings I was at 0.06 (+/-0.04) and have worked my way down now to 0.00 (+/-0.04). After my GFO was offline for like 6 weeks I brought it back with 2 cups in the reactor which is my max load I use on the 120.. Within 24-48 hours a couple of zoa varieties closed up.. I immediately felt strongly that it was phosphate related... they rebounded just fine over the next couple weeks... For me I see no reason to CD because i have 0 nitrates and near 0 phosphates through biological and mechanical filtration... so i'm thinkimg for you this could be phos related as well??? i usually think of alk issues being the most likeliest cause for zoa melting. My summer zoa melting issue wound up being due to emerald crabs..

now for me my focus is to maintain these levels with sound husbandry... i will say my zoas never looked better when i wasn't running gfo and my phosphates were 0.06.. it made me want to start a zoa only frag tank separate from my existing system where the water change water would be the water I removed from my SPS display tank... it would cost me $0 in upkeep... just would need weekly 20-30% water changes...

 

[mikesmith34]

Now there is a reason for another tank!! I tried lowering my PO4 with GFO, lowering my feeding, I did water changes every 2 weeks, I got po4 under control. Any way long story short I could not get my nitrates down lower than 25 after all I had done. So after a ton of research I decided to CD. Worked like a champ and last Friday night when I tested it was at 2ppm. I also use brs 2 part and dose manually. Maybe the swing in alk is the answer to the z melt. I do know back when my water was a little dirty my z's grew like crazy.