Red Bugs, anybody dealt with them?

[jmaneyapanda]

glxtrix;37555 wrote: i personally dont think valium is a good comparable analogy here, its not like you have people doing illegal things to get interceptor cuz it messes them up. Its for fish tanks, a good cause at that I might add. Now if valium didnt have the effect it did and wasnt a sought after drug for people who need a bit of relief from what ever, then it wouldnt be a big issue either. Apples and oranges here really. To sum it up and I'll say no more after this cuz bickering is not my bag, but a medicine NEEDS to be made to treat for red bugs, its a very common aquaria issue, granted its unfortunate that you cant get it without a perscription but in the long run if I ever need it again, I'll do what ever to get it cuz legally speaking, if I'm caught with interceptor, there will be no punishment but if it were valium thats a different story.

That aint quite correct Lee. As far as the government is concerned, it doesnt matter what your intentions are, you are committing the crime. The bottom line is this- interceptor is prescription because the FDA as determine it can be potentially harmful. Howso, I dont know, but the FDA has said it can ONLY be administered by prescription, due to this potential. This is true of any prescription medication. If you illegally acquire any precription medication, there is a consequence. Law enforcement will watch for certain pharmaceuticals because of the greater misuse, but they will not disregard the law because of your intentions. The person caught illegally purchasing valium (or codeine, or morphine, or whatever) will be charged with the same crime as the person caught illegally buying interceptor (to a certain extent- certain "recreational" drugs are meriting higher "values" by law enforcement). Dont get confused that your good intentions will allow or excuse you from breaking the law- it won't.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that drug junkies should be treated difrently that aquarist, but unfortunately, the law is impartial. I, too, agree, a medication must be developed for this problem.

Think about this, any veterinarian that prescribes you interceptor is really risking his career. You could potentially sue him for mis-prescibing meds to you for non-labelled purposes, and he would likely lose his license and the lawsuit.

 

[siege]

glxtrix;37555 wrote: i personally dont think valium is a good comparable analogy here, its not like you have people doing illegal things to get interceptor cuz it messes them up. Its for fish tanks, a good cause at that I might add. Now if valium didnt have the effect it did and wasnt a sought after drug for people who need a bit of relief from what ever, then it wouldnt be a big issue either. Apples and oranges here really. To sum it up and I'll say no more after this cuz bickering is not my bag, but a medicine NEEDS to be made to treat for red bugs, its a very common aquaria issue, granted its unfortunate that you cant get it without a perscription but in the long run if I ever need it again, I'll do what ever to get it cuz legally speaking, if I'm caught with interceptor, there will be no punishment but if it were valium thats a different story.

This is highly unsound thinking glx. As Jmaneyapanda said, the government has precisely ZERO sense of humor in this regard, and with most judges, your lawyer isn't ever going to be able to convince the judge of your argument above. It doesn't matter what you're using it for, the fact of the matter is, it's is still an FDA scheduled controlled substance, and you'll wind up pleading first offender or nolo-contendre, possibly get a night in jail, about $500 or so in fines, +/- 7 days community service, and 90 days probation, same as you would on marijuana, assuming the amount of Interceptor you're caught with doesn't classify as a felony. You'll also be lucky if they don't get you on inter-state or international drug trafficking. Again, <u>ZERO</u> sense of humor. You think you know what you're doing better than they do, and the government doesn't like it when it's citizens get uppity. If you think the government makes things illegal or controlled "because it messes them up a bit", you need to take a long hard think about the way governments throughout history operate.

glxtrix wrote: if I'm caught with interceptor, there will be no punishment but if it were valium thats a different story.

Please, I beg you to think a little longer and harder about what you do. This thinking is patently false. You might get lucky and get an annoying slap on the wrist... A night in jail, a fine, probation, etc. You might get buggered and wind up with a felony. If you have a house and nice things... Well, let's just say, avoid the justice system where you can. If you need to treat red bugs... Quarantine first. If you have to use interceptor, then at least don'tgo blithely into it thinking nothing can happen to you, because I assure you my friend, that is the universe's favorite time to bite you on the butt: just when you think it can't/won't.

Yes, there needs to be a med FOR this... So petition the company that makes it to have it examined by the FDA for dispensation via Veterinary Rx for the purposes you desire it for. Convince them it will make them more money (makes the world go 'round) and it might just happen. Otherwise, ya makes yer bets and ya takes yer chances, and as time tends towards infinity, the odds in favor of the house increase geometrically. I'm not saying I <u>agree</u> with the way it is, but that doesn't change the way it is.

 

[glxtrix]

as stated I'll say no more, I know where I stand on this point and I know where you do so its not worth my time to have you think like i do...I'll leave you with a thought tho, what if you get red bugs in your system and you dont have a dog to steal the meds from, what are you gonna do? I guess break the law and be a bad person cuz there is NO other alternative. Peace I'm out.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

All I can say, that god for mexican pharm stores! I can get almost anything with a short e0mail over the boarder.

I do not agree with the law but I think Panda is correct, becareful if you decided to skirt it. I do not want to see ya on the 11:00 news

 

[siege]

Xyzpdq0121;37579 wrote: I do not agree with the law but I think Panda is correct, becareful if you decided to skirt it. I do not want to see ya on the 11:00 news

My whole point. I don't think you're a bad person for doing what needs to be done in the face of an incredibly inflexible legal system... I just don't want to hear about you on the news man; just exercise reasonable caution!

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Oh I do not need any vet meds... All my meds are for "recreational" use only!




Ok before this lands me in trouble... I am just kidding! I have never ordered MDMA or Ketamine from Mexico.



Canada has better stuff!

 

[siege]

Ewwwwwwww... Ketamine... Barf.

When working at the animal safari in pine mountain, I've had occasion to dart animals... and to see someone darted by someone else trying to tranq one of those infuriating goats. Looked like a bad ride to me =(

 

[dough]

Back to RB.

Since I don't own a scale for accurate measurements, what would be the best guess amount for this adventure in my 58 gallon tank.

Brandon, I am getting ready to do the TMCCC trip in a few minutes.

Doug

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Call me doug.

 

[dough]

Now?

 

[dough]

TMCCC Evaluation

400 ML of tank water in white butter dish. Add acro and Id quite a few RB.

Added 1 ML of TMCCC. Stirred mixture with spool. Observed RB still milling around. Saw copepod and mysis shrimp swim out from the frag plug. Waited 5 minutes observed RB milling around. By hand, I swished frag around in the container trying to remove hangers on. RB hanging on.

Added additional 1 ML of TMCCC for total of 2 ML in 400 ML of tank water. Mixed with spoon. Let stand for 1 minute. Observed one or two RB. Agitated water again. Observed only on RB on frag. But I think it is DOA. Blasted it with syringe and still there.

Dipped in clean tank water. Still observed the one RB. Tried flicking it off with finger. Still there.

 

[justonemoretank]

Well this thread got pretty interesting...
Since I did not catch it at the beginning I am not sure if people will still read this.
I did find Red Bugs in my tank. I was super upset and did not know what I should do about it. They are quite difficult to see on the corals and I actually first saw it while looking at a magnified digital photo on my computer monitor!
I got Interceptor from my Vet. My wife asked for it (she has been with her puppy frequently) specifically for the 'Reef Tank' and the vet said 'yeah sure fine how much do you need?' Neither knew how much I needed so I have way too much. He told her that she could bring it back and I am planning on that because it was really expensive!!!
Anyway I just did one treatment of the entire tank, sump, skimmer, everything. It did not completely wipe out all of my pods or all of my hermits but it was super close. I have not seen any Red Bugs since the treatment... I cannot remember when that was (Cameron might remember when because I had to go over to his place and borrow a skimmer pump ceramic shaft I broke during the event).
I used just over half of a crushed up tab (size 51-100 pound dog). Each full-size tab contains 23mg of Milbemycin Oxime. So I dosed about 15-16 mg of Red Bug poison into my 120g tank with 50g sump. I estimate that the tank contains what... 100g of water due to the displacement of the rock? And the sump around 30g while running because it is not full to the top with water. So perhaps a total water volume of 125 to 130 gallons and 16 mg of Milbemycin Oxime. I let it run with the meds and hoped for the best for 14 hours. I then did a 45 gallon water change and ran some carbon. The following day I did a second 45 gallon water change and replaced the carbon.
Everything seems back to normal. No losses of any corals. (I dont have any clams so I cannot comment on that animal's reaction to the med). I had tons of pods and small mysid shrimp and they all seem lost. However I think that I have seen just like one or two in the sump that seemed to have made it???
If anyone has any questions or needs some meds feel free to pm me.

 

[siege]

Ouch, sorry you had to nuke like that =(

 

[jmaneyapanda]

glxtrix;37571 wrote: as stated I'll say no more, I know where I stand on this point and I know where you do so its not worth my time to have you think like i do...I'll leave you with a thought tho, what if you get red bugs in your system and you dont have a dog to steal the meds from, what are you gonna do? I guess break the law and be a bad person cuz there is NO other alternative. Peace I'm out.

There is alternatives- ask your veterinarian- he may precribe it! I have heard many stories of people who have had their vet do it! Try online- like Brandon says, you can probably get it somewhere without the ordeal. I even remember reading on reef Central about a vet in South Carolina who is willing to prescribe it for red bugs (at his own risk). All I am saying is be cautious about getting it illegally.

 

[FutureInterest]

We have a lot of laws on the books that we just don't enforce due to common sense. Heck its illegal to perform oral sex in many states still.. but noone enforces it because we'd all be in jail.

In a similar way it is a violation of the FFDCA to import interceptor, but the FDA like us know that under these circumstances it would be silly to enforce. As such, they have a long standing policy that governs the application of this law known as the Personal Importation Policy. This would qualify for nonenforcement since its for personal use with no unreasonable risk attached to the product. However, this only applies to personal use so if you're going to sell it like that guy on RC then you could be fined up to 1k per violation.

 

[siege]

Added to rep FutureInterest. That was well said and insightful.

However, just take precautions. Oral sex may be illegal, and many places may choose not to *actively* prosecute, but if you get caught, you get caught. Ok, maybe you don't wind up being charged with anything in the end (though I think that'd be sheer luck), but me, I'd rather just not get caught in the first place.

As a result, and back on topic, after a discussion with the roomie, we will flatly not ever be introducing new stuff to our tank without a QT and dip first, as soon as we can get everything setup to do so.

 

[FutureInterest]

Maybe that's a poor example... How about this one... In the state of MD it is still law that all vehicles must give right of way to any US postal vehicle. So that ambulance screaming down the road needs to pull over when the mailguy is driving through .

 

[dough]

Back to RB treatment.

Started the treatment 8 minutes ago. Probably used a tad too much. About a quarter of a tablet.

Setup my extra 10 gallon for the hermets and claeto trying to save pods and shrimps.

The acro I treated last night with TMCCC shows no signs of RB today.

 

[siege]

Well, no, that one doesn't work so well either, as it is generally considered to be acceptable to break certain laws in order to prevent a greater crime or loss of life so long as no innocents suffer as a result. Speeding in order to prevent or avoid an accident, for example, or shooting someone not directly threatening you in order to prevent them from killing someone else. AFAIK, no one has been charged with animal cruelty in regards to fish, however, and I'd still be surprised to see the above argument go over any better in court than would someone with glaucoma caught with a bag of weed; they can claim that it helps them, but fact of the matter is, the FDA has never validated marijuana (a controlled substance) for treating glaucoma (or anything else) any more than they have certified Interceptor (also a controlled substance) for treating red bugs in an aquarium. It goes back to the government getting kinda snotty whenever its citizens think they know more about something than they do.

Still not sayin' it's right, just saying I don't trust the fed not to screw me over at any and every opportunity. If you'd like some examples of this, go do some research on what happened when Dept. of Natural Resources first came into being and decided to regulate the sport of falconry, and what they did to a number of falconers (granted, one in specific was pretty corrupt, but he took a lot of good people down with him, I understand), all because the falconers thought they knew more about it than the panel of politicians and DNR employees whose knowledge of falconry was so extensive they actually refer to vultures as buzzards in their original regulations.

I've seen some good people ruined because of animals and the government. Granted, I'm pretty sure they catch more bad-guys than the screw good-guys, but I've seen too much of the former for my tastes also.

 

[siege]

Good luck on your treatment Doug!