Remote Sump layout

[enderg60]

Ok a few problems I see so far that I would HIGHLY recommend you address for future ease.

First, your Oceans motions will work where it is, but there is a chance that being below the water line will case water hammer(knocking noise) You really want the OM to be at the highest point of the system. I have mine on my return, and just use multiple outlets on the closed loop(on a random timer)

I see a few pics with an emergency overflow for the sump, make sure you keep that. its a big life saver!

Also put an actual valved drain on the bottom of the sump. Makes water changes a breeze!

Your water making setup is nice but two things. You want enough water (both fresh and salt combined) to do a full 100% water change if need be. As in drain the water, pump in the salt you have, dump the fresh and make more and then add that so you can do a full change, minimum. trust me there will come a time you will use it. this is easily done by using 2x6's rather then 2x4's around the bottom.

Mount the fresh water tank above the sump and above the salt tank. That way you can simply drain it into the salt tank, and drain it to a float valve in the sump. I also recommend a solenoid on a timer to said float valve as a safety measure.

Also make sure your fresh tank, salt tank and sump are high enough off the ground to put drains on them should you need to dump them for any reason. Makes life much easier.

Put a pump in the mix tank and pipe it with 2 valves so it can both mix and pump water into the sump and mix the tank. Id also recommend putting it on a timer so its not running all the time to save electricity. Mine is on for 30 min every 3 hours, or I can leave it on for a day to mix the tank, or click it on to pump some water over for a water change.

And lastly. Get tons of valves and unions. At some point you will have to take stuff apart and this will make life easy as well.

EDIT: one more thing. If you can find room, add a small 10-20g tank with a hang on filter and heater thats plumbed into the system, but can be isolated. And bam you have a cycled quarantine tank or frag tank! hell you can use some valves and run it off the UV output, and just divert the flow to the sump when you need to isolate it.

 

[giulianom]

EnderG60;880172 wrote: Ok a few problems I see so far that I would HIGHLY recommend you address for future ease.

First, your Oceans motions will work where it is, but there is a chance that being below the water line will case water hammer(knocking noise) You really want the OM to be at the highest point of the system. I have mine on my return, and just use multiple outlets on the closed loop(on a random timer)

I see a few pics with an emergency overflow for the sump, make sure you keep that. its a big life saver!

Also put an actual valved drain on the bottom of the sump. Makes water changes a breeze!

Your water making setup is nice but two things. You want enough water (both fresh and salt combined) to do a full 100% water change if need be. As in drain the water, pump in the salt you have, dump the fresh and make more and then add that so you can do a full change, minimum. trust me there will come a time you will use it. this is easily done by using 2x6's rather then 2x4's around the bottom.

Mount the fresh water tank above the sump and above the salt tank. That way you can simply drain it into the salt tank, and drain it to a float valve in the sump. I also recommend a solenoid on a timer to said float valve as a safety measure.

Also make sure your fresh tank, salt tank and sump are high enough off the ground to put drains on them should you need to dump them for any reason. Makes life much easier.

Put a pump in the mix tank and pipe it with 2 valves so it can both mix and pump water into the sump and mix the tank. Id also recommend putting it on a timer so its not running all the time to save electricity. Mine is on for 30 min every 3 hours, or I can leave it on for a day to mix the tank, or click it on to pump some water over for a water change.

And lastly. Get tons of valves and unions. At some point you will have to take stuff apart and this will make life easy as well.

EDIT: one more thing. If you can find room, add a small 10-20g tank with a hang on filter and heater thats plumbed into the system, but can be isolated. And bam you have a cycled quarantine tank or frag tank! hell you can use some valves and run it off the UV output, and just divert the flow to the sump when you need to isolate it.

Something along these lines?

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I could ditch the twin 30-gallon barrels and go with 2 x 100 Gallon tanks, and stack them on top of each other. The vertical room is a little over 9 feet so I could probably do that. One 100 gallon for RODI, the 2nd below it for mixing.

The aquarium is 150 gallons nominal, so it wouldn't be a 100% match but it'd be almost there.

 

[enderg60]

If you have the room to stack 2x100g tanks then by all means yes do that. It would give you the room to put the sink back in which is very good idea.

Also just because Im a plumbing engineer...and I play alot of tetris....if you put the UV and return pump Under the sump you should end up with plenty of room for both the sink and the QT setup, which if you stay under 20G you can hang above the sink on a shelf. you can also put the skimmer on a shelf over the sump as well.

Edit: Oh and one other think I did on my setup you might want. I ran a 1.5" pipe under the tank down to my drain system, so I can shove a hose in it and siphon the tank and not have to worry about buckets or long hoses.

 

[giulianom]

EnderG60;880178 wrote: If you have the room to stack 2x100g tanks then by all means yes do that. It would give you the room to put the sink back in which is very good idea.

Also just because Im a plumbing engineer...and I play alot of tetris....if you put the UV and return pump Under the sump you should end up with plenty of room for both the sink and the QT setup, which if you stay under 20G you can hang above the sink on a shelf. you can also put the skimmer on a shelf over the sump as well.

Edit: Oh and one other think I did on my setup you might want. I ran a 1.5" pipe under the tank down to my drain system, so I can shove a hose in it and siphon the tank and not have to worry about buckets or long hoses.

It IS</em> very much like a Tetris game, isn't it...

 

[giulianom]

EnderG60;880178 wrote: If you have the room to stack 2x100g tanks then by all means yes do that. It would give you the room to put the sink back in which is very good idea.

Also just because Im a plumbing engineer...and I play alot of tetris....if you put the UV and return pump Under the sump you should end up with plenty of room for both the sink and the QT setup, which if you stay under 20G you can hang above the sink on a shelf. you can also put the skimmer on a shelf over the sump as well.

Edit: Oh and one other think I did on my setup you might want. I ran a 1.5" pipe under the tank down to my drain system, so I can shove a hose in it and siphon the tank and not have to worry about buckets or long hoses.

How about this?

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30"x30"x60" stand with 2x6 boards, and 2x6 cross braces underneath the plywood top/bottom to support the tanks. About 6" clearance above the bottom tank, enough to get my hand in there.

The tanks are 28" in diameter, so I'd have to build the frame, drop the bottom tank in from the top, screw in the cross brace and plywood top, and then set the upper tank on top of that.

 

[rdnelson]

EnderG60;880178 wrote: If you have the room to stack 2x100g tanks then by all means yes do that. It would give you the room to put the sink back in which is very good idea.

Also just because Im a plumbing engineer...and I play alot of tetris....if you put the UV and return pump Under the sump you should end up with plenty of room for both the sink and the QT setup, which if you stay under 20G you can hang above the sink on a shelf. you can also put the skimmer on a shelf over the sump as well.

Edit: Oh and one other think I did on my setup you might want. I ran a 1.5" pipe under the tank down to my drain system, so I can shove a hose in it and siphon the tank and not have to worry about buckets or long hoses.

Just like a plumbing engineer to pack 10 pounds of $h1+ in a 5 pound bucket. hehehehehehe

 

[gort]

What did you use to make these drawings?

 

[giulianom]

Gort;880325 wrote: What did you use to make these drawings?

Trimble Sketchup, formerly Google Sketchup.


In any case, I figured out that I just didn't have the room in the area I was thinking of for 2 x 100 gallon stacked tanks - there are some 3" PVC drain pipes overhead that are in the way.

Here's the area I have to work with, showing the wall studs without drywall for clarity - the giant red area is a stairway that I can't go into.

The area is 36" deep, by about 20 feet long.. however only about 12 feet of that is area that I can really use.

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However, there is plenty of room on the opposite side of the wall for 2 x 165 gallon vertical storage tanks - one for RODI and the other for salt mixing.

And there's plenty of room underneath the stairway to cut some holes to run plumbing through from the tanks into the sump room.


Another view with one of the studwalls and the stairway box hidden:

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At some point in the next few months, I'm going to have to get one or two of these storage tanks from a Norwesco distributor in Griffin GA - I could have them shipped, but the freight charge would be almost as much as the tanks themselves.


I know there's a few people here in or near Griffin GA, is there anybody with a truck that would be willing to help pick them up?

It probably won't be until September/October, during a Mon-Fri 8am-5pm timeframe.

 

[grouper therapy]

Why not put everything on the other side?

Edit: I'm not sure what type stair treads you have but all that moisture is not going to be the best for them.

Edit: I would definitely put plywood or drywall underneath the stairs.

 

[giulianom]

There's HVAC equipment on the other side of the wall in the garage... Can't move that!

The only open space is down the wall where the tanks may go...

The stairs are basement stairs, cheap untreated wood on the underside.. I'll grab a pic.


I also plan to install a ventilation fan in that area to vent the moisture outside.

 

[ddaddy2420]

EnderG60;880178 wrote: If you have the room to stack 2x100g tanks then by all means yes do that. It would give you the room to put the sink back in which is very good idea.

Also just because Im a plumbing engineer...and I play alot of tetris....if you put the UV and return pump Under the sump you should end up with plenty of room for both the sink and the QT setup, which if you stay under 20G you can hang above the sink on a shelf. you can also put the skimmer on a shelf over the sump as well.

Edit: Oh and one other think I did on my setup you might want. I ran a 1.5" pipe under the tank down to my drain system, so I can shove a hose in it and siphon the tank and not have to worry about buckets or long hoses.

Curious, if he puts the return pump under the sump, thereby adding several 90's to the suction side of his return, wouldn't that seriously handicap the capacity of his return pump?

 

[giulianom]

ddaddy2420;880389 wrote: Curious, if he puts the return pump under the sump, thereby adding several 90's to the suction side of his return, wouldn't that seriously handicap the capacity of his return pump?

The pump has capacity to spare, but yes I wanted to avoid that... Straight intake as much as I can.

 

[enderg60]

ddaddy2420;880389 wrote: Curious, if he puts the return pump under the sump, thereby adding several 90's to the suction side of his return, wouldn't that seriously handicap the capacity of his return pump?

If he is using a pressure based pump, then no it wont make a big difference considering the actual head height.

Your last layout looks good, but make sure you have easy access to the storage tanks(cant really tell from the sketchups if you can or not) and make sure the pump(s) for them is easily accessible.

what is the white line under the RO with the circular junctions?

Ok now for a few notes. the skimmer pump will need to be at sump level or below(most pumps have a hard time sucking up)

I would also rotate the return pump 90° so it takes up less space on the stand(just make sure you at least double of the piping from the intake of the pump and the additional elbow wont hurt at all.

I would still recommend putting the pumps under the sump since there is room. And if you dont want to put the UV under there also I would say get some pipe hangers and mount it to the wall. Just make sure you have enough room to remove the bulb without having to take the UV down. (then youd have room for the QT tank*hint, hint*)

You can lower the profile of the UV by doing 90's right on the UV and then the valves(opposite to what you have shown)

Just remember easy access, and easy disassembly should be priority.

And yes as an engineer I always have to cram crap into small spaces!

 

[giulianom]

EnderG60;880414 wrote: If he is using a pressure based pump, then no it wont make a big difference considering the actual head height.

Your last layout looks good, but make sure you have easy access to the storage tanks(cant really tell from the sketchups if you can or not) and make sure the pump(s) for them is easily accessible.

Yes, I should have easy access to the tanks themselves - they would be in the garage, up against the wall.

what is the white line under the RO with the circular junctions?

That's where the dedicated power circuit is run along the wall. They're models of junction boxes and conduit.

Ok now for a few notes. the skimmer pump will need to be at sump level or below(most pumps have a hard time sucking up)

The yellow skimmer pump is a Panworld 150 recirculation pump - the skimmer is a MRC 2R Recirculating. The feed pump for the skimmer will be in the sump itself.

I would also rotate the return pump 90° so it takes up less space on the stand(just make sure you at least double of the piping from the intake of the pump and the additional elbow wont hurt at all.

The pump is a Barracuda/Hammerhead, with 1.5" inlet and outlets.

The true-union ball valve is also 1.5" - I do have a 2" TU Ball Valve, but that's being used elsewhere.


I don't know how feasable going up to a 2" or 3" intake would be...

I would still recommend putting the pumps under the sump since there is room. And if you dont want to put the UV under there also I would say get some pipe hangers and mount it to the wall. Just make sure you have enough room to remove the bulb without having to take the UV down. (then youd have room for the QT tank*hint, hint*)

I could mount it on the wall, in fact had it that way in some of the variations...

The clearance required to remove the UV lamp is about 4 feet (the UV is 4 feet long), and the inlet has to be in the right side of the UV as shown in it's current horizontal layout.

You can lower the profile of the UV by doing 90's right on the UV and then the valves(opposite to what you have shown)

Just remember easy access, and easy disassembly should be priority.

And yes as an engineer I always have to cram crap into small spaces!

Yeah, I can do that too...

 

[enderg60]

Ahhh ok. If those tanks will be in the garage, I would recommend wrapping them in some insulation as they will get very cold and very warm through the seasons.

Ok you should be fine with 2" but I would not go lower with the flows you are looking at. If you have to buy stuff just go 2.5" reeflo pumps are pretty good about not undersizing the intakes. But do what fits. Again this is just to make things easier on your pump should the intake clog.

Mounting the pump to the wall is something you can do, but I dont really like doing that because it makes maintenance a pain. But either way, get some neoprene mouse pads to put under it. Cheap and they work great for vibration dampening.

As far as the UV goes, I actually have mine mounted to the top 2x4's of my sump stand. basically right under where the sump is on your setup. not really in the way and easy to get to, and plenty of clearance.

And dont worry too much about time, I spent 2 years planning my system over and over again. Then 8 months building it, making small changes as I went. thats just the way it goes. As you build things you run into stuff you didnt think of. better it take a while and be done right the first time. Having to cut up $300 worth of PVC sucks.

 

[giulianom]

Having the pump rotated 90 as it is wouldn't work - the pump is too long.

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I can most likely place the pump underneath where it is now, with a Z-shaped or U-shaped pipe inlet to the pump with 2" PVC, possibly 2.5" or 3"...


How would you normally protect the bulkhead inlet on the inside of the sump?

I was assuming using one of those 1.5" or 2" PVC strainer pieces that screw into the bulkhead.

 

[enderg60]

Yup, I actually make strainers out of PVC because I like them bigger then regular ones.

I just use a long piece of PVC with a cap at the end and cut a ton of slats into it with the table saw.

I did that for the intake of my closed loop too, and now fish can sit on it and anemones can walk over it at full flow and its no big deal.

 

[giulianom]

EnderG60;880454 wrote: Yup, I actually make strainers out of PVC because I like them bigger then regular ones.

I just use a long piece of PVC with a cap at the end and cut a ton of slats into it with the table saw.

I did that for the intake of my closed loop too, and now fish can sit on it and anemones can walk over it at full flow and its no big deal.

Ok, that makes a bunch of sense.

I may either try the slot method with the table saw, or perhaps drill a hole pattern with the drill press..


I think I will stick with 2" PVC for the pump inlet, trying to go for 3" will be pricy with true-union ball-valves.


I'm thinking a strainer piece somewhere between 6" and 12" long, with a pattern of either 1/4" or 3/8" holes drilled around...

 

[ripped tide]

G, how long does it take you make one of those images on sketchup? They look amazing, but I know that it takes me FOREVER to do a simple drawing. I feel like if I were to put the time into making the images that you have, I could have plumbed the system 5 or 6 times already! Lol

 

[rdnelson]

EnderG60;880414 wrote:

And yes as an engineer I always have to cram crap into small spaces!

No you just have to draw a picture of it. We have to use a shoe horn and KY Jelly to get it in place.





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