Sick Blue Tang

[vettesarebest]

So I have a Blue Tang that has ich and I need to take her out and put her in a hospital tank. The problem is - I just yesterday put a filter pad in the sump to get some bacteria on it for the new hospital tank. How long does this pad need to be in there before I can move my Tang to my hospital tank? I need to get her out ASAP. From now on I am going ot keep a pad in there.

 

[flipturn88]

Bryan, as long as you do frequent water changes and keep an eye on the levels in the hospital tank, I would put the tang in there now. What method are you going to use to treat the fish? Also, how long have you had her?

 

[vettesarebest]

Put her in there without any bacteria? I was going to use green ex to treat her. It has always worked in the past. It says it is reef safe but I really don't like treating my tank. I have had her for 3 years.

 

[showtime305]

Good luck with the tang. How long has it had ich? How bad is th infection?

 

[vettesarebest]

It isn't that bad but it is mainly on her body and they are hear and there. It was worse. I have been feeding everything with garlic and have made sure the tamperature is stable. I was also thinking of a freshwater dip but I don't know if it will work. She has had it for about 4 or 5 days now. Thanks AJ!

 

[showtime305]

You can place it in there but watch the parameters. You will need to do several water changes while treating for ich so you shouldnt have an ammonia build up. Make sure you dont over feed.

 

[maveri9720]

Just like Kayla said, do frequent water changes to export excess nutrients and you will be fine. You colonize the filter with bacteria so they can break down the excess nutrients and you can do water changes less frequently.

And usually, when you treat something in the QT, you take out the filter to keep from contaminating it anyways.

Just fill the tank up, put a heater and a powerhead in there, along with some PVC so it can have a place to hide and feel safe and put the tang in there.

Can't recommend anything for treatment, b/c I never had to treat anything. I hear people use Kick Ich with some regularity. Not sure about the FW dip either.

Sorry, I couldn't help more.

 

[vettesarebest]

So I take it I don't need to colonize the filter pad just use fresh made saltwater? Maveri - any bit helps and thanks!

 

[showtime305]

You can use water from your tank, but you need to keep up with the water changes to stop the ammonia from building up.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Bryan, if you have any "sacrificial" live rock- it could be relegated to the hospital to live out it's life there. I always keep rubble, coral skeletons, or even macroalgae in the refiguium to be designated to the hospital tank in time if need. Remember, beneficial bacteria will grow on everything, not just media. Just keep in mind, whatever goes to treatemnt, never goes back into the display.

 

[vettesarebest]

So now im confused? I do not need to use the filter media?

 

[maveri9720]

Maroons15 wrote: So I take it I don't need to colonize the filter pad just use fresh made saltwater? Maveri - any bit helps and thanks!

Yep that's right. You don't even have to use fresh SW. You can use some from the main tank if you want. I typically do 1/2 and 1/2 when I fill my QT.

But make sure you put something in there that the tang can hide in and feel safe in. It needs to feel the least amount of stress possible. PVC is cheap and inert, so it won't cause any probs.

I don't put any sand or rock into my QT, b/c it makes it that much more difficult to clean up, when you are trying to get all of the detritus and excess food off of the bottom. I keep it simple, so that way it is simple to maintain.

But w/o something with bacteria on it, you will need to be doing WC's about 3x per week or so to be safe. But do small ones, around 5g each should be adequate and keep the stress down on the tang. Feed it well and keep adding garlic.

As for treatment, hopefully someone more experienced can chime in.

Good luck and glad to help out where I can.

Forgot to ask, do you have any other fish in your main tank? If so, are they showing signs of getting Ich?

 

[vettesarebest]

Thanks Guys I'm going to give the media a couple more days to get bacteria on it so I don't have to change the water 3x a week. Thank you everyone for the advice it really means alot to me! I'll keep you posted.

 

[suasati]

If the fish is eating and acting ok, I would suggest you rather do water changes on the display to bring the water quality up, It doesn't make much sense to move the fish and stress it further. Your display tank already has ich now, what purpose does it do to treat one fish? unless ofcourse if that is your only fish. When you put him back in the display, what is the garantee he won't develope ich again, infact, if you ask me, he has a higher chance of getting infected again, after all the moves.
The best course of action would be to do the water changes on the display tank, maybe add a UV if you can, and hope for the best. If you do not have any temp sensitive corals/inverts, maybe bring the temp up slowly to 82-84F, no higher, for a few days. That will be my course of action.

 

[maveri9720]

Water changes aren't going to get rid of the disease. He has to treat the fish. The only ways to get rid of ich are to either treat it, or let the tank go fallow for 30 days or so, probably more like 45.

Upping the temp and trying to get ideal water conditions will have no effect on the disease, nor will doing water changes help any.

Also, IMO, I don't think the stress of moving 5-10 seconds from one tank to another is a terrible amount, or something to seriously consider. If he has one available, then he should use it, as long as he gets the params of the QT to match the params of the main tank, there shouldn't be a prob.

I don't see the point of trying to treat in-tank, when he has the option to use a QT. If you have to treat in-tank, you run the risk of stressing out other life in the tank and normally those medicines are diluted pretty well, b/c they are to be used in a reef tank with other life, so the effectiveness of it isn't great either.

If he didn't have the means to set up a QT, well, then you have no other choice, but he does and I personally think it is the right decision.

 

[suasati]

I will have to disagree, Marine Ich is not a disease but a parasitic infection. Better husbandary is more effective in combating parasites than repeated treatments, was my point. I don't know about others, but I wouldn't consider catching anything in my tank as stress free, and ofcourse, I am excluding the stress it brings me.

Moreover, You will have to leave the display tank without any fish for 3months to be absolutly sure there aren't any tomonts left in the tank to cause reinfestation.

 

[maveri9720]

Well, technically you're right about ich being a parasite, but I was just being general. I should have chose my words better, it isn't a disease, but a parasite.

But I still disagree that keeping perfect water conditions will treat and prevent ich.

Ich is a parasite, so whether your tank is perfectly in line with what it should be, or totally out of whack, ich doesn't just magically appear. It is introduced into the system.

So I'm not sure I understand the reasoning as to why perfect params will prevent a parasite from being introduced into a tank or eliminate it once it has been established.

 

[cameron]

Here is my suggestion... First, don't panic ick is pretty common and easily treatable. You may want to watch and see if the fish fights it off. If it starts getting worse continue on.

Get the fish into QT using water from your main aquarium. Throw a cheap box filter in the corner with an airstone and a heater. Little bit of PVC doesn't hurt either Third, raise the temp of the tank up slowly for a few days and then back down. This speeds up the parasites life cycle. Make sure you watch for other fish with the problem. Forth, slowly lower the salinity of the QT tank by doing fresh water changes twice daily with well airated water. Target around 1.010. Do about 1/6th the volume per water change. Leave there until you don't see any white spots on the fish. Let the fish stay in there for 2-3 more weeks. Keep the temp in the QT about the same as in your main tank. After the QT time, reverse the above with water from the main tank. Oh and once you get the targetted salinity you can ease up on the water changes going to daily to every couple days. Just monitor the QT water params to be safe.

Disclaimer... I have never done this, but was reading a great article by Fenner who suggested this as a safe method for killing parasites and inverts. You can even use live rock from your main tank and put it back when you are done since this method is chemical free. Also, some fish will likely be killed by doing this these include critters from the shark and ray families.

 

[suasati]

All fish to a certain degree have resistance to parasites, giving them good water means they have a better chance to combat infestation. It is better to attack the root cause than the symptom for longterm success. But we can always agree to disagree....


BTW - from what maroons15 posted

"It isn't that bad but it is mainly on her body and they are hear and there"

I don't think it is even an infestation.... I believe he is seeing an early symptom of deteriorating water quality issues and I still would suggest uping the water changes in the display tank, than to treat the fish in QT, which really doesn't fix the initial problem, which is "ich in the main tank".

 

[xyzpdq0121]

I have to agree with Cameron and Maveri here...

I have spent a long time trying to study the "natural immunity" that a fish can have to Ich. First things first. Ich is hardly ever seen in the natural environment. It is not a "disease" that is prevelant in a natural setting. There have been a lot of debate to if fish can fight off the parasite on their own or even develop a natural immunity to the parasite. Little evidence shows that they can and it is hard to replicate the process to help them "develop" this trait. Any study of Noga's work will let you see that this is not a practical treatment for the "disease".

I believe copper, and other chemical compounds, are a last resort. The treatment is sometimes harsher then the infection.

UV will not "cure" an outbreak from a system. At best you can hope to deminish the outbreak into something managable and help stop the spread of the parasite int he free floating stage. Little do most people know, UV lamps need very low flow to be useful against parasites. Take my coralife turbo twist. Water must flow through there at ~55gph to be effective. Yes the rating is that you can throw a 200gph pump on there but this will likely do little but kill algae.

Cameron and Fenner are correct. The best treatment is out of the tank and performed on all fish in the system. If the parasite has something to live on, it will. No matter how good your water quality is or what type of cleaner fish you put in there. Heck, the cleaner fish will develop Ich too.

AN increase of water tempature, a decrease in SG, regular water changes of 20-40% of the water each morning in the QT tank all will "cure" the parasite over time. FW dips should be performed prior to QT period to give the fish a "break" from the infection and bring the parasite numbers back down to a managable number.

Most "experts" agree that a tank that is allowed to run fallow for 30-45 days will be enough to rid the system of the parasite. It is a matter of the life cycle of the parasite. Extra measures of increased water tempature can be implimented to ensure that this is indeed enough time.