Standard bulk water change vs continuous

[enderg60]

<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: black;">So I am debating setting up a continuous water change system for my tank (300g tank 480g system FYI) </span></span>
<span style="color: black;"> </span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: black;">I have been on the fence about this for a few reasons. Mainly that I like the idea of exporting a large chunk of “bad stuff” at once when doing regular 25-30% water changes. BUT in doing this I end up having to return my skimmer and display drain (beans silent overflow system) after turning off the main pump.</span></span>
<span style="color: black;"> </span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: black;">With continuous (I would be doing between 2 and 5 gallons a day) you get more stability, but less “bad stuff” exporting.</span></span>
<span style="color: black;"> </span>
<span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: black;">So what are your thoughts?</span></span>

 

[jdabs]

Interesting thought. I'm tagging along.

 

[brianjfinn]

Give a little more detail on how it works. When you say "continuous," do you truly mean there is a constant exchange of water?

 

[llewella]

I've thought about this too. Seems to me while you may get less of a bulk of "bad stuff" with the continuous water change, you also have less of a build up of that bad stuff. May be better actually to keep more stable water conditions instead a build up of bad then removing it and having good water for a while then another build up etc.. JMO

I also dislike turning off the skimmer and return when doing water changes and then readjusting.. It would also keep me from having to mix up large quantities of water at one time.. could be part of a daily routine to do a few gallons a day.. could do it when I top off (manually)

 

[enderg60]

I would probably go more the route of a 2-5 gal change once a day rather then a full continuous change(running two slow dosing pumps, one in, one out, constantly) Or even a 1 gal change a few times a day. But the difference between those two methods would be pretty minimal vs a monthly 100g change.

 

[enderg60]

found a good artical on the topic

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php</a>

For the other lazy *******s here are some cliffs.

A doing 1% change daily(or 30% volume change), equates to about the same as a 25% monthly change but evens out the "spikes"(see graphs in link) but you will be using more water overall (about 17% more new water)

<span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="color: black">So the downsides are, 17% more water for the same overall effect and having to keep the water heated and mixing constantly as opposed to only once a month. Doing some math for my system that would be about $15 a month in electricity and $7 in extra salt.</span></span></span>

So is this added monthly cost, and the cost of the parastaltic pumps, mixing tank, mix pumps and heaters worth it?

I already have everything but the parastaltic pumps, so I may just do this.....

 

[enderg60]

yeah but that doesnt appeal to my lazyness!

Actually after reading a bit more, I do not have to keep the water heated at all. thanks to doing the small changes even adding 5 gal of 50 degree water to a 480g system only drops the temp .3 degrees.

So that drops the overall costs to no more then $10 a month.

Looks like ill be doing this. Just gata find me some motors for my 2 spare parastaltic heads.

 

[enderg60]

Yup, its definatly more wastefull, but the waste/cost is so minimal compared to being lazy its worth it to me.

For me its alot easier to implement the system since my ATO is already on a solenoid so I can just close that while it does the water change. But yes the two pumps must be perfectly matched, and parastaltic pumps are the only way to do that.

Plus I already have a 200g mix tank setup so I dont have to set anything else up.

 

[tony_caliente]

I guess the question for our chemical and mechanical engineers and chemists and math gurus is:
Is bulk dilution more effective the continous solution assuming one is starting with decent parameters to begin with?

 

[enderg60]

Way ahead of you rit. system already has a 15 gallon skimmer, and Im building a MUCH larger one. And I think the 150g fuge with 300lbs(will add at least 200 more too) has most of that covered.

I was planning to do 50 to 100g monthly water changes depending on how the quality was, so doing 2g a day isnt much of a difference in cost. If things go well I may lower it to 1g a day, but adjusting the amounts would be as simply as changing the settings on the timer(or controller)

Since the tank is still kind of new I have been doing 100 or 150g monthly changes, but it seems to be settling down now.

Tony you are correct, but as I said, baesd on 100g a month the added cost in salt is only about $7. I spend more then that at the snack machine at work.

 

[enderg60]

I was thinking about that last night(a way to be able to drain the fuge for water changes without shutting everything down), since everything currently drains into the fuge. I can do it by making what ill call a drain manifold to collect all the drains and then be able to divert it to the sump or fuge depending on what valve is open.

I will probably go ahead and do that anyway, but thats just what got me thinking about doing a continuous setup.

 

[jonathan]

I really liked the Dialyseas concept on this. Seems like Neptune or Digital Aquatics could build something similar to it. Gives new meaning to the term "dosing"

Jonathan

 

[tony_caliente]

I would like to see if anyone could this out without regard to cost.

 

[dakota9]

i PLAN TO READ THIS WHOLE THREAD WHEN i GET HOME, AS i'M STILL AT WORK (AND APPARENTLY TYPING IN ALL CAPS...Uhm)

I'm not understanding how you'd balance an ATO with the continuous SW feed, seems like your specific gravity would go through the roof eventually as water evaporated unless you continousely adjusted the specific gravity to a lower level than that of the tank. Sorry if this issue has already been addressed.

I think more frequent but smaller regular water changes would actually be better, just MHO

 

[enderg60]

I actually love the dialyseas systems, but they are so ridiculously expensive it breaks my cost / lazyness threshold!

yeah its a bit of a hard concept to wrap your brain around the first time, but if your in and out pumps are matched and you have a ATO system it will actually work just fine.

And Ares, what you are describing is basically how my fuge is setup. All i have to do is divert the water from draining into the fuge to drain into the sump and my fuge is then no longer part of the system and can be drained and refilled.

 

[grouper therapy]

EnderG60;497175 wrote: I was thinking about that last night(a way to be able to drain the fuge for water changes without shutting everything down), since everything currently drains into the fuge. I can do it by making what ill call a drain manifold to collect all the drains and then be able to divert it to the sump or fuge depending on what valve is open.

I will probably go ahead and do that anyway, but thats just what got me thinking about doing a continuous setup.

Remember mine. the drain diverts past the 50 gallon tank and is isolated from the system so you don't have to shut down.

 

[grouper therapy]

Check out the dual head peristaltic pumps made by Stenner. Same motor dual rotor.

 

[grouper therapy]

You could put a motorized butterfly valve on the drain from the tank set on a timer and then isolate the fuge .Then use one of these one a timer to change your ? gallons a day and get 100% water change advantage. Once the Stenner cuts off, the butterfly opens up and things are back to normal . You could use a relay that would not let the stenner turn on unless the butterfly had turned off. and vice versa.

 

[enderg60]

I already have two parastaltic heads, I got 5 of them and used 3 to make the dosing pumps for my 3 part. Just have to get two more motors.

Yeah my plan is to turn my fuge into your 50g bypass tank.

And screw those big motorized valves, them things are expensive! Find me some cheap ones and hell yeah Ill setup fully auto water change system in no time!

 

[dakota9]

EnderG60;497356 wrote: yeah its a bit of a hard concept to wrap your brain around the first time, but if your in and out pumps are matched and you have a ATO system it will actually work just fine..

That's a very hard thing to do if not impossible, even with identical pumps as compensating for wear, gravity, debris and calcium build up are a lot of variables with impossible to calculate factors.

Sooner or later, you'll get a flood......