Standard bulk water change vs continuous
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I have an idea that would use gravity feed and physics to keep the salinity in check.
Take a large container and fill it with mixed SW and a mixing pump. Put a hole in the top for a drain. Now float a plastic 55g drum in that container (check valve on the output and weighted so air comes out the top, but not water). Pump water from the tank into that drum, and as the drum sinks, it will raise the water level above the drain line in the large fresh SW container draining only the amount that was pumped from the tank.
Might need a container too large to be feasible, but that idea would only require one pump, the and as long as there's some way to prevent evaporation from the fresh SW storage tank, the tank will only drain the amount of water that is pumped from the tank.
Take a large container and fill it with mixed SW and a mixing pump. Put a hole in the top for a drain. Now float a plastic 55g drum in that container (check valve on the output and weighted so air comes out the top, but not water). Pump water from the tank into that drum, and as the drum sinks, it will raise the water level above the drain line in the large fresh SW container draining only the amount that was pumped from the tank.
Might need a container too large to be feasible, but that idea would only require one pump, the and as long as there's some way to prevent evaporation from the fresh SW storage tank, the tank will only drain the amount of water that is pumped from the tank.
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I have not understood the issue yet. Please explain which valve in my design you expect to close or not close in order to flood the tank or room.
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This normally open valve http://www.stcvalve.com/Solenoid_Valve_Specifications_2P160-250.htm">http://www.stcvalve.com/Solenoid_Valve_Specifications_2P160-250.htm</a> is on a drain line from the tank that is diverted from the main drain. It will be on a timer that shuts it off for 70 minutes. During that time the 7 gallon container that it was flowing into above the sump is isolated from the system. This dual head pump [IMG]http://www.stenner.com/prod-170dm5.htm">http://www.stenner.com/prod-170dm5.htm</a> is the turned on by it's internal timer and pumps out 7 gallons out of the container and simultaneously pumps 7 gallons into the sump . If the drain valve doesn't open then the water just goes down the drain as normal and if it doesn't close then the water is not isolated .The water still stays in the sump. Now if the dual head pump should stick on after the internal and backup timer you have it hooked to [B]<u>both at the exact time fail</u>[/B] then you will pump whatever volume in your container of saltwater into the sump but no harm done as it also pumping that much out as well, Plus I have an overflow drain on my sump should the water rise to high and is diverted to a drain. Now if all this fails and the dual pump runs out of supply water but continues to pump out the old saltwater my flow switch on my return pump will shutdown the return pump so as not to burn it up .
1 Dual head pump
1 1" solenoid valve
1 extra timer
The flow switch I have on the system anyway and the sump spillway overflow I have anyway.
Really not complicated to me.
And unless the safety spillway overflow in my sump becomes cloged I don't see how a flood is possible.
No magic to it!!
My auto top off is given the chance to come on once day for 5 minutes.
I drip Kalkwasser 24/7 so it only actually actuates every three days or so. This event will only allow 5 gallons max in each day.
1 Dual head pump
1 1" solenoid valve
1 extra timer
The flow switch I have on the system anyway and the sump spillway overflow I have anyway.
Really not complicated to me.
And unless the safety spillway overflow in my sump becomes cloged I don't see how a flood is possible.
No magic to it!!
My auto top off is given the chance to come on once day for 5 minutes.
I drip Kalkwasser 24/7 so it only actually actuates every three days or so. This event will only allow 5 gallons max in each day.
Ok Ill see if I can explain this for both setups.
<u>Full Continuous Water change.</u>
Needed : dual parastaltic pumps(single dual head pump will work also)
How it works : Water In is exactly the same as water out, so the water change never actually changes the level in the sump. Thus using a float valve for ATO will still work as normal.
<u>Small Daily Changes</u>
Needed : two matched parastaltic pumps, Solenoid(or other method to shut off ATO), 3 timers
How it works : Using timers first shut off your ATO system. Then use Pump1 to drain X gal of water from the tank(say 20min on). Then use Pump2 to fill the sump back up(same 20 min run time will put the exact same amount of water back in). Last turn ATO back on.
<u>Automatic Bulk Water Changer</u>
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Needed : Bypass tank(in my case my fuge), salt mix tank(same size as or larger then bypass tank), Normally open Solenoid valve(S-1), normally closed solenoid valve(S-2), pump, float switch, 3 timers.
How it works :
Initially water flows from the display to the bypass tank, then to the sump, then back to the tank.
1. Timer1 closes S-1, forcing water to go to the sump rather then the bypass tank.
2. Timer2 opens S-2, draining the bypass tank
3. Timer3 turns on the pump, refilling the bypass tank.
4. Float switch, shuts off pump when bypass tank is full
5. Timer3 shuts off pump/float switch
6. Timer2 closes S-2
7. Timer1 opens S-1 allowing flow through the bypass tank to continue.
That should explain everything. All you would have to do in all these cases is mix the salt water when you run out.
Yes Im bored at work
<u>Full Continuous Water change.</u>
Needed : dual parastaltic pumps(single dual head pump will work also)
How it works : Water In is exactly the same as water out, so the water change never actually changes the level in the sump. Thus using a float valve for ATO will still work as normal.
<u>Small Daily Changes</u>
Needed : two matched parastaltic pumps, Solenoid(or other method to shut off ATO), 3 timers
How it works : Using timers first shut off your ATO system. Then use Pump1 to drain X gal of water from the tank(say 20min on). Then use Pump2 to fill the sump back up(same 20 min run time will put the exact same amount of water back in). Last turn ATO back on.
<u>Automatic Bulk Water Changer</u>
Needed : Bypass tank(in my case my fuge), salt mix tank(same size as or larger then bypass tank), Normally open Solenoid valve(S-1), normally closed solenoid valve(S-2), pump, float switch, 3 timers.
How it works :
Initially water flows from the display to the bypass tank, then to the sump, then back to the tank.
1. Timer1 closes S-1, forcing water to go to the sump rather then the bypass tank.
2. Timer2 opens S-2, draining the bypass tank
3. Timer3 turns on the pump, refilling the bypass tank.
4. Float switch, shuts off pump when bypass tank is full
5. Timer3 shuts off pump/float switch
6. Timer2 closes S-2
7. Timer1 opens S-1 allowing flow through the bypass tank to continue.
That should explain everything. All you would have to do in all these cases is mix the salt water when you run out.
Yes Im bored at work
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Dakota9;497783 wrote: Looks great!
I say it malfuntions and creates a significant flood atleast once in the first two months.
But looks Great!!!!!!
which one?
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Well I'd assume you'd have to empty the 55g drum once a month or so...
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Where does the new saltwater come from? never mind I got it !
I am going to think more on this one sounds like a great idea so far!!!!!
:up::up::up:
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Maybe at the same one would mix the new saltwater.
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You have to make that too...there is actually some effort involved like filling the tub with RO/DI, etc. I just meant that it was failsafe, not necessarily the laziest.
Think about nesting dolls (my mom collects them). You take a 60g drum, drill a drain at the top and run a line to the sump, and fill it with salt water. Then get another drum that jus barely fits inside the 60g drum, put it in there, build some wooden bracket so it sits upright and account for water displacement from the actual weight of the drum. Then get your dosing pump and run a line to the top drum and when it adds water to the top drum it sinks, and the water in the lower drum rises to the drain and into the sump. When the top drum has almost completely submerged, stick in a garden hose or what have you and siphon the water out. Lift the drum up again and make some new salt water in the lower drum, repeat the process.
Think about nesting dolls (my mom collects them). You take a 60g drum, drill a drain at the top and run a line to the sump, and fill it with salt water. Then get another drum that jus barely fits inside the 60g drum, put it in there, build some wooden bracket so it sits upright and account for water displacement from the actual weight of the drum. Then get your dosing pump and run a line to the top drum and when it adds water to the top drum it sinks, and the water in the lower drum rises to the drain and into the sump. When the top drum has almost completely submerged, stick in a garden hose or what have you and siphon the water out. Lift the drum up again and make some new salt water in the lower drum, repeat the process.
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Yeah, couple years of engineering school helps me to look at things from different ways. Like I said, it's not the easiest, but if you set it up right and do your monthly (or however long you take to change out 55g) maintenance, there is virtually no way the design can fail.
I envision a steel powder-coated bracket (maybe fabricated by a club member) that fits around a 55g drum and can hold the weight of an empty drum above the 55g (remember, only the empty weight needs to be held, not the weight of the drum + water).
This would be ideal to use in a closet or some space where dust would be minimized.
I envision a steel powder-coated bracket (maybe fabricated by a club member) that fits around a 55g drum and can hold the weight of an empty drum above the 55g (remember, only the empty weight needs to be held, not the weight of the drum + water).
This would be ideal to use in a closet or some space where dust would be minimized.
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You don't have any snails in your sump that could crawl into the overflow, do ya?
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No.
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No I don't and it is a simple overflow anyway
I 'm sure you don't. That would be a huge challenge for you.:lol2::lol2::lol2:
