T5 Lighting Redesign

[cameron]

Here we go... This is the tank color I am shooting for and this guy has NO problems growing some monster colorful SPS in his tank.
<fieldset class="gc-fieldset">
<legend> Attached files </legend>

>

class="gc-images" title="cl.jpg_Thumbnail1.jpg[/IMG] style="max-width:300px" /></a> </fieldset>

 

[gwhiz]

Interesting pic...his lights are way off the water compared to most T5 installs that I've seen.....

 

[cameron]

Probably so he can get his hands into the tank easier. I believe these can be raised and lowered easily. He may also be limiting salt splash on the fixture.

 

[sammy33]

Cameron;109316 wrote: I knew it was going to read poorly as my bulbs on my 250w setup aren't very good and they are filled with salt spray not to mention my reflectors covered in it as well. Anyway after a HORRIBLE PAR reading, I bit it and bought new IceCap ballasts and reflectors from ReefGeek with a range ATI bulbs. Will get them installed and let everyone know how much the PAR goes up... it certainly can't go down.

Did you note your PAR readings with your current setup? I would like to know the actual numbers you got from your current system. The two T5 only tanks I measured (mine and wbholwell's) have about the same readings with around 500 at the top and about 150 at the sand 22" down. Both systems use SL reflectors and spec T5 ballasts.

Overdriving T5 apparently increases the output by an estimated 20%. I am wondering by overdriving my lamps would my T5 system then have a PAR reading between 720 and 180?

 

[george]

What exactly is involved in "overdriving" a T5?

Since a fluorescent bulb works off plasma emission hitting the phosphor, pumping more juice into the bulbs would presumably cause more emissions that result in visible light. However, more energy makes higher energy emissions which does not necessarily make a light brighter if the energy shifts emissions further into the UV spectrum. There has to be a limit before you exceed the expected conditions that went into the selection of bulb materials.

 

[chull13]

Cameron;110127 wrote: Another plus is Sanjay's recent research that is rumored to be showing very high PAR numbers for quality T5 setups outpacing even good MH setups.
The question I have, is why not?

Where is this Research? I am interested to see it as I am also thinking of a T5 system.

 

[justonemoretank]

I cannot remember what the PAR values were for my 120g tank running 4 overdriven T5s (660 ballast) and 2 T5s running on a regular Triad (ReefGeek) ballast ... but I was not happy with the number. Jin measured it with the ARC meter. He later PMed me and said that the meter was way off and that I actually had more PAR than it was reading.
My SPS corals always seemed to grow pretty well/quickly. However I dont think that they had the same "pop" bright color that I wanted to see. Perhaps it had less to do with the type/intensity of the light and more to do with the fact that the Ca and Alk were not as high or stable as they should have been ... *shrug*
That said I would say that I really liked my 6 48" T5s on my 120g tank.

 

[sammy33]

George;110216 wrote: What exactly is involved in "overdriving" a T5?

Since a fluorescent bulb works off plasma emission hitting the phosphor, pumping more juice into the bulbs would presumably cause more emissions that result in visible light. However, more energy makes higher energy emissions which does not necessarily make a light brighter if the energy shifts emissions further into the UV spectrum. There has to be a limit before you exceed the expected conditions that went into the selection of bulb materials.

Not sure on the "exact" process but basically you are just applying more current across the lamp. Most bulb manufacturers rate lamp performance a bit on the conservative side so you can push them a bit farther than factory specs.

 

[sammy33]

chull13;110239 wrote: Where is this Research? I am interested to see it as I am also thinking of a T5 system.

I don't think Sanjay has published the results of his testing yet. Here is http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1013083&perpage=25&pagenumber=1">the thread announcing the plans for the T5 vs Metal Halide study</a>.

He has apparently discussed some of his findings in speaking presentations but has not published any articles or updated his [IMG]http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/">lighting website</a> with the T5 data.

 

[cameron]

I am no expert so please correct me if I am wrong.

The newer better designed T5 bulbs from ATI and UVL are putting out a much higher PAR than the old finnex bulbs and even Geissman. A single bulb with no reflector from ATI in the blue spectrum are kicking out around 310-350 PAR which is about 100+ from Helios, AquaZ and Finnex.

Next up are the new reflectors which increases PAR by 2-3% over the old ones supposedly even more if you are using the old Tek reflectors. Not much but every bit counts.

Overdriving the bulb does not help much unless you keep them cool. If you can actively cool with heatsinks, you can increase output from a stock T5HO setup by almost 20% which is how those ATI fixtures are coming out with those big numbers. There is a law of diminishing return but overdriven bulbs that are cooled properly have been showing 10-15% more PAR.

In the end, you can get some good PAR with relatively low heat and cost out of the fixtures. Pick the right bulbs and you can get a nice custom color that should make your corals glow.

 

[cameron]

out a much higher PAR than the old finnex bulbs and even Geissman

Shouldn't read Geissman... AquaZ and Helios along with a host of other knock offs.

 

[sammy33]

What intrigues me about T5 lighting systems is their inherent closeness to the required light range of most corals. I have heard from several reliable sources and studies (Tyree, Riddle, etc.) that most corals have a natural</em> PAR requirement in the 200-600 range. Even very demanding SPS thrive in PAR around 350-550. All of the data I have seen on T5 lighting setups places them very close to this range in the average reef tank (20" to 24" deep).

My T5 system is just a little shy of this with a total PAR range of about 150 to 550 with most of the reef structure in the 190 to 420 range. I would like to bump this up a wee bit as I am liking SPS corals more and more these days.

My main problem with my T5 system is what you described earlier with salt spray on the bulbs and reflectors. I lose about 80-100 points of PAR when mine are dirty. I have my lamp/reflectors about 5" off the water but would like them closer. The only way I can figure to avoid this spray and be able to move the bulbs closer is to add covers to the tank. Maybe starfire glass? I am thinking it would be much easier to pull the glass and clean it than to have the lighting trashed with salt spray.

The ATI and UVL lamps do seem to perform well. The only information I have seen is the test from grimreefer on RC. I am hoping that mixing in some of these lamps with my Geissemanns will give me a boost.

I have two large fans blowing on the lamps for active cooling. I have another clip-on-the-tank fan cooler with 4 fans in it that I am planning to add if I add more T5's.

I am using the Ice Cap reflectors so no complaints there. Advance ballasts drive all my T5's (no overdriving).

I do have room for two more rows of T5's for a total of six rows or twelve 39w lamps. This would be a total of 468 watts of power to drive all these lights.

So what I am saying is I would do the T5's and then optimize:
<ul>
<li>bulb selection (best of Geissemann, UVL, ATI)</li>
<li>close to the water (4" max)</li>
<li>protect the reflectors (starfire tank covers)</li>
<li>active cooling of the lamps (fans)</li>
<li>distribution (pack the canopy full)</li>
</ul>

I was thinking upgrading my lights by adding three 250w HQI's to my tank but I think I have talked myself out of it now.

 

[dough]

Cam - My take on most SPS tanks that run only T5 lamp are that the corals look pastel and don't have a deep rich color that we see with MH. Yes you can run SPS tanks with T5 lamps and be successful. No doubt about it. I don't think you get as concentration of PAR or light under a T5 reflector as you do with some of the specialyt MH reflectors such a the Lumenarc etc. This maybe the cause of color difference.

The Fiji Purple lamp is well purple. I'm running a Fiji Purple and the Coral Light lamp. The Fiji really does do much for me in the way the colors look no pop just purple. The Coral Light has some red spectrum in it and it really pops the greens, pink and red corals.

You explained why you are looking at a all T5 setup. It was money and you wanting to go with a different lower light corals.

 

[cameron]

I certainly believe SPS can be kept under T5 lighting with great success. I think they color up just fine. You may get some different colors based on UV exposure and the fuller spectrum of an MH (which can be somewhat countered with UVL and GE 3000k bulbs that shoot more greens and reds into the tank), but that is preference. I notice SPS tends to glow more under T5 lighting which I like. Truth is if you don't like T5 lighting you sure won't like LED lighting which is an even more dedicated spectrum. In the end it is preference. Under white lighting, corals are going to appear richer. Under blue/purple lighting they are going to appear more "pastel" or "glow" more. I am guessing you throw a bank of GE 3000k bulbs or some of those UVL Aquasuns and you will notice a coral color closer to MH lighting.

I will let you know soon enough though. I have about a dozen SPS and they will be the tell tale. I even have a great close up of one of them which hopefully we can duplciate after the T5 setup.

 

[cameron]

I would add that MH lighting has several benefits and I am not trying to detract from them, but I am also not going to admit (at least not yet) that a well designed T5 setup aren't very good lighting for a SPS tank in their own right.

T5s have come a long way in the last few months and the systems built a year ago aren't likely going to produce the PAR and coloration of the newer systems with the better reflectors, higher quality bulbs and better cooling much less ones that are overdriven. We here in the US are behing our fellow keepers overseas who have been keeping T5 SPS tanks for a long time. Here are a few great examples:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/totm/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/totm/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://www.hausriff.ch/4534/index.html">http://www.hausriff.ch/4534/index.html</a>

[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=812416&perpage=25&pagenumber=1">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=812416&perpage=25&pagenumber=1</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/aquarium">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/2/aquarium</a>

 

[dough]

If you want to see the Fiji and Coral light let me know and swing by when your visiting the bunny man.

Also Aquarium Specialty has a deal on Aqua Science T5 lamps right now. Buy one get on free, limit one free one, but I thought I might order a set of the 15K lamps and see how they preform.

 

[dough]

I'll admit that those are beautiful tanks, but the colors look washed out, lighter or pastel looking to me.

I was seriously looking at going to T5 on my tank for all the reason you've expressed. Cost, better spread, equal or better PAR etc. But when I got to looking at SPS tanks driven with T5 lamps they just didn't have that deep rich color.

Now the question is am I conditioned to think SPS corals under MH are the correct colors?

 

[cameron]

Try one of the GE 3000k or UVL Aquasuns on there when you get a chance. I think it is just too much blue for your tastes. Kinda like looking at a 20k bulb after staring at a 10k or 12k bulb. Intensity between the two should be similar so really it is mostly a matter of spectrum unless shimmer really does have something to do with what you are seeing. UV may be it as well. I certainly notice more glow when a fixture pounds a lot of blue into the tank moreso than a balanced spectrum course that just makes it look more ocean like to me.

I have heard great things about the AquaScience lamps. That German study showed extremely impressive growth with them compared to the ATIs.

 

[sammy33]

A couple of our very own ARC members T5 only tanks. (Mike and Dave - hope you guys don't mind me posting these pics.)

Mufret's 55g

alt="" />

Big D's 180

alt="" />

Both Mike and Dave have deeper colors on their SPS than my tank (what's you guys secret?). My SPS are slowly showing some richer colors but I have only had corals in my system for about 6 months.

I think the lower K lamps like the Sun and Midday lamps really help with the richer colors. These lamps provide a wider spectrum and have a higher CRI than most all other T5 lamps.

 

[cameron]

I didn't know Big D ran T5s... very nice.