Tank massacre...

[bcavalli]

First, I'm very sorry for your substantial losses. It's never easy, especially when you don't know exactly what happened.

But, when I upgraded my 90 to a 120 I went through a small cycle. Then when I added my frag tank to my system, I had another small cycle. IMHO. It sounds like maybe you spiked your ammonia levels.

 

[rdnelson]

Ralph ATL;1039548 wrote: true, but not enough to effect livestock! it is beyond low..what they are talking about are "shorts"

I agree. Which is my point. Trying to read it with an electrical meter will mislead you. JMO

Boil Boots and I (both in the electrical industry longer than we care to think about) ran a few tests which confirmed what I mentioned above. He was going thru a similar experience as the one described hear. Forget the exact cause but it was not "stray voltage" yet he was reading all sorts of currents. My tank, perfectly healthy was reading the same types of things.

 

[russ-iv]

Ralph ATL;1039535 wrote: sorry, but stray voltage is a myth...it can't stray...

if you have a short, stand in a bucket of water, and stick your hand in tank...that will tell you right way! lol....

seriously, you can out one end of a voltmeter in tank and other grounded....that would tell you if a piece of equipment has a short.

Make sure Alk stays there (close), 24-7...7 days a week, etc....

disease, water parems, anemone, aggressive fish, poor nutrition....etc...that's where u should look.

not sure what you mean by it "cant stray"

i have an eheim heater that when it kicks on reads 6v in the sump and 2v in the DT. It has since been yanked.

i doubt stray voltage would kill the fish. however if we were to take your same experiment and jump in the bucket with the heater and the glass would break... im sure you would get a nice jolt of wattage. (mine being 300)
i have not personally had this issue, but have read about the glass tube surrounding the electric coils leaking and sending a nice zap to the inhabitants.

im not saying this happened, however an inspection of the heater isnt a bad idea to rule it out.

Bcavalli;1039549 wrote: First, I'm very sorry for your substantial losses. It's never easy, especially when you don't know exactly what happened.

But, when I upgraded my 90 to a 120 I went through a small cycle. Then when I added my frag tank to my system, I had another small cycle. IMHO. It sounds like maybe you spiked your ammonia levels.

id agree except corals are the first to close up during an ammonia spike or if the tank was going downhill IME. then again so would a short.

 

[russ-iv]

rdnelson99;1039538 wrote: Most likely, you would read voltage in every tank tested. That likely will not tell you anything but lead you down the wrong path IMO. Salt water is an electrolyte. Put it in motion and you have a battery. Measure voltage from that to a grounded outlet and you will read something. But that does not mean there is a short. JMO

being that you are an electrician (im not) wouldnt stray voltage high enough lead to a risk of a short in the future?

 

[jbdreefs]

Russ-IV;1039565 wrote:
id agree except corals are the first to close up during an ammonia spike or if the tank was going downhill IME. then again so would a short.

Agree 100%. Just went through it.

 

[madcanary]

thanks guys, I'm checking and finding nothing out of ordinary. amm 0, rate0, rite 0, phos 0.02, alk 132, ph 7.9, temp 78.5, salinity 35.2 and or 459. alk and orp have been stable and have had no swings of norm I'm half way through measuring consumption for dosing.
i checked heaters they are the plastic cobalt aquatic ones, i don't have a volt meter but I'm doing fine lol. all my coral are open this am, nothing has moved to start a fight no cloudy water.
I'm thinking it was a violence related issue, i messaged the vendor he said he doubted it but idk I'm just waiting for a tank crash but nothing is indicating that it is coming.

 

[russ-iv]

Madcanary;1039575 wrote: thanks guys, I'm checking and finding nothing out of ordinary. amm 0, rate0, rite 0, phos 0.02, alk 132, ph 7.9, temp 78.5, salinity 35.2 and or 459. alk and orp have been stable and have had no swings of norm I'm half way through measuring consumption for dosing.
i checked heaters they are the plastic cobalt aquatic ones, i don't have a volt meter but I'm doing fine lol. all my coral are open this am, nothing has moved to start a fight no cloudy water.
I'm thinking it was a violence related issue, i messaged the vendor he said he doubted it but idk I'm just waiting for a tank crash but nothing is indicating that it is coming.

if corals arent closed up the next solar cycle then you probably wont have one. ime it either happens next day or it doesnt. so you should be clear.

not sure what would kill livestock like that but if you have an itch it was violence related, it may very well be considering you covered all the bases.

 

[madcanary]

thanks, i feel like my dog died.... a 2x4 to the groin would probably feel better about now, I'm scared to even consider restocking.

 

[madcanary]

i just order another 2 neo therms they where about a year old i know it wasn't them but hey they the oldest piece of equipment i own.

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Have you recently distrurbed the rock and sand? Over time, sulfa tens can build up and when released be toxic to the fish. About a year ago, I was moving rock around, next morning my blue and kole tang were both dead, and my clowns and six line wrasse were fine. All coral were ok too.

 

[rdnelson]

Russ-IV;1039566 wrote: being that you are an electrician (im not) wouldnt stray voltage high enough lead to a risk of a short in the future?

As Ralph said there is no stray voltage. It goes to ground no matter what. It just takes the path of least resistance. If the insulation were broken down you could get a small amount of current (which is different than voltage) flow but that would further damage the insulation quickly and things would go south in a hurry.

 

[russ-iv]

rdnelson99;1039617 wrote: As Ralph said there is no stray voltage. It goes to ground no matter what. It just takes the path of least resistance. If the insulation were broken down you could get a small amount of current (which is different than voltage) flow but that would further damage the insulation quickly and things would go south in a hurry.

so my volt meter is only measuring the small current leaking in to the sump and display and the ground is keeping things in check.
but that current can degrade the insulation and lead to a short in the future?

ime water and electricity never was a fun mix. so when i took my volt meter and saw a reading based on the heater turning on, i go paranoid and never trust it again. im hoping this is a well founded action instead of it being nothing to worry about.

thanks for the explaination

 

[rdnelson]

Not exactly. What you are most likely reading is a difference of potential. Not the same as current flow. If you are concerned, make sure the tank is supplied by a GFI.

 

[madcanary]

i have my tank on dedicated circuit with GFI's, no shock when I put my hand in tank, sand bed is new "live" sand. so safe to say since the remaining fish are still swimming and corals are open and happy. im just an unlucky f'er?!
side note phospahets have gone upto 0.18.. guess I missed a fish?

 

[jennm]

Phosphates won't kill fish.

I suspect faulty electrical bits - call it stray voltage or whatnot - the carnage you described I've seen before with faulty heaters or pumps. You won't feel volts but you will feel amps. The fish are affected by voltage.

You may not read zero, but anything over about 6 would have me unplugging everything to find the culprit(s) and it could be heaters but only when they are actively heating.

The fishes that died are typically more sensitive to that and the ones that survived, are ones that are less sensitive, in my experience.

I'd check that more carefully before ruling it out.

Jenn

 

[rdnelson]

JennM;1039982 wrote: Phosphates won't kill fish.

I suspect faulty electrical bits - call it stray voltage or whatnot - the carnage you described I've seen before with faulty heaters or pumps. You won't feel volts but you will feel amps. The fish are affected by voltage.

You may not read zero, but anything over about 6 would have me unplugging everything to find the culprit(s) and it could be heaters but only when they are actively heating.

The fishes that died are typically more sensitive to that and the ones that survived, are ones that are less sensitive, in my experience.

I'd check that more carefully before ruling it out.

Jenn

Jenn, I am sorry but there is a major flaw in your statement. You cannot have amps with out volts and can't have volts without amps. Voltage is the force that causes the current to flow. Amps is the result of current flowing. The lower the resistance the higher the current.

 

[madcanary]

surely if there was anything electrical my apex power graph would show? i have no wires in tank, everything is in sump, heater are 6 month old neo threm as stated before all my equip is less than 6 months old, vortechs, RO, Skimz. apex graph never spiked new heaters got here today ill get a meter and checked the voltage this weekend, parameters still haven't changed. i run GFO and carbon at all times.
ill post pics i took on wifes phones.

 

[russ-iv]

my heater is 30 days old and leaked volts. age doesnt matter imho.

btw it is an eheim

 

[madcanary]

yeah i upgraded from eheims, to the neo therms. wouldn't the voltage show on my apex graphs?

 

[russ-iv]

Madcanary;1040000 wrote: yeah i upgraded from eheims, to the neo therms. wouldn't the voltage show on my apex graphs?

not familiar with apex. (yet)

however if something is amiss i do break out my voltemeter people can tell me volts dont stray all day long. but shlt happens snd i intend to stay on top of it