What exactly do I do????

[radha]

Ok, so my clownfish has ich!! There are two of them, and out of the two, the female has it. I'm pretty sure it's ich, I can attach a pic later! What exactly do I do?? I don't have a quaruntine tank, my dad's gone, I can set it up when he comes back, but for the time being, what should I do?? How do I treat it?? It's feeding day today, so I can put some kind homemade garlic thing in it? What should I do? I've never dealt with this.
Will get params up in a bit! Gotta go test!
Thanks!

 

[christopherjay]

If it is still eating..Let it be..Just keep it well fed

 

[radha]

I don't know if it's eating... I'm gonna go feed it, I'm just really scared it's gonna pass something to the other fish in my tank.

 

[radha]

I'm trying to take a good pic... not working so well...

 

[jennm]

How long have you had the fish? Any new additions lately? Any sudden changes to parameters?

Speaking of parameters... what are they?

Are you certain it's ich? Clowns don't get ich very often - it is possible, but there are other ailments it could be too - and it's best to be sure of what you're treating before you quarantine and begin treatment.

Running on the careful assumption that it's ich, you can spike the food with some garlic, that will help entice the fish to eat, and help boost its immune system. Meanwhile, try to figure out what caused the outbreak in the first place (see my first questions) and if there is an issue there, correct that. If the underlying cause is not addressed, you won't solve the problem by just treating the symptoms.

If you have a QT, you can use hyposalinity and/or Cupramine by Seachem - and get a copper test kit with it to monitor the dose.

If you can't do that, get Seachem Metronidazole & Focus, spike the food with that in a 1:1 ratio - one part Met with one part Focus (you can make a batch by thawing some food adding the med and refreezing). It's hard to overdose Met. That medicated food can be used safely in a reef tank.

Hope this helps,

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369485 wrote: How long have you had the fish? Any new additions lately? Any sudden changes to parameters?

Speaking of parameters... what are they?

Are you certain it's ich? Clowns don't get ich very often - it is possible, but there are other ailments it could be too - and it's best to be sure of what you're treating before you quarantine and begin treatment.

Running on the careful assumption that it's ich, you can spike the food with some garlic, that will help entice the fish to eat, and help boost its immune system. Meanwhile, try to figure out what caused the outbreak in the first place (see my first questions) and if there is an issue there, correct that. If the underlying cause is not addressed, you won't solve the problem by just treating the symptoms.

If you have a QT, you can use hyposalinity and/or Cupramine by Seachem - and get a copper test kit with it to monitor the dose.

If you can't do that, get Seachem Metronidazole & Focus, spike the food with that in a 1:1 ratio - one part Met with one part Focus (you can make a batch by thawing some food adding the med and refreezing). It's hard to overdose Met. That medicated food can be used safely in a reef tank.

Hope this helps,

Jenn

Thanks so much Jenn! I did recently add a red striped goby, and it was from Diane's tank, but it is completely healthy (or so it seems, it doesn't have anything on it). I was thinking maybe I could blow the turkey baster on her, to see if it comes off, and it is just mushroom gunk (because she hosts a mushroom), but my dad (who I just spoke to on the phone) said he didn't think that was a good idea. I dunno what you think of that. I mean she is swimming fine and everything. No QT, but I think I'm gonna have to set one up tommorow, the only problem is, everything in there is freshwater, freshwater plants, gravel, I need to clean it out, and get it running, I need some guidance and help! My mom knows nothing about this!! I think I'm gonna head up to the fish store later, I don't have someone to drive me right now. I'm getting testing.

 

[jennm]

Have you tested the water? What are parameters? Doubtful it was the goby if it came from a healthy, established tank.

Jenn

 

[radha]

Testing the water at this time
So, can someone guide me on the QT? Just got off the phone with dad, told me not to set it up without him, but he comes back friday... input??

 

[jennm]

If your tank water params are good, I'd make up new water enough to fill the QT - BUT... I'd fill the QT with water from the main tank, and replace the water taken from the display with the new water.

Then, leave the QT bare bottomed, but move some media into the QT from the main tank... this could be anything from a filter pad or sponge, a small sacrificial piece of LR (which will never return to the main tank again)... preferably not sand but it's an option if no other one exists... but something that has been in the display or sump for some time enough to have beneficial bacteria on it to help it cycle.

In a perfect world, people have QT up and running and cycled all the time - but this world isn't perfect.

I'd pick up some Seachem Stability and follow the directions for a new tank.

Make sure that temp matches the main tank - parameters should be fairly close to the same if you used display tank water to fill the QT, and your NSW was made to match, so you should be able to move the fish right away without any acclimation from one tank to the other once the QT is ready.

If you opt for hyposalinity, I'd drop the salinity a few hundredths each day til you get where you want to go with it. I usually don't go lower than 1.017 but some do. If you're opting for Cupramine, add it right away, and test it daily and re-dose as necessary.

If you are dosing meds into the QT, do not use any carbon filtration, no skimmer, no UV as these will remove/break down the medicine.

If you are going to treat with Metronidazole as a food additive in QT, you can run carbon, skimmer, UV if you wish.

Do not mix meds - interactions can occur - so pick a course of treatment and see it through.

Ich doesn't usually kill a fish outright - the secondary infection that has opportunity from bite sites is usually what gets it. The Metronidazole and Focus also have antibiotic properties and can help with this, so it's a good way to go.

Some copper meds can be harsh, but in my experience, Cupramine is a lot gentler on the fish. It's not a chelate or sulfate. But no matter what - if using *any* copper based med, TEST TEST TEST.

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369497 wrote: If your tank water params are good, I'd make up new water enough to fill the QT - BUT... I'd fill the QT with water from the main tank, and replace the water taken from the display with the new water.

Then, leave the QT bare bottomed, but move some media into the QT from the main tank... this could be anything from a filter pad or sponge, a small sacrificial piece of LR (which will never return to the main tank again)... preferably not sand but it's an option if no other one exists... but something that has been in the display or sump for some time enough to have beneficial bacteria on it to help it cycle.

In a perfect world, people have QT up and running and cycled all the time - but this world isn't perfect.

I'd pick up some Seachem Stability and follow the directions for a new tank.

Make sure that temp matches the main tank - parameters should be fairly close to the same if you used display tank water to fill the QT, and your NSW was made to match, so you should be able to move the fish right away without any acclimation from one tank to the other once the QT is ready.

If you opt for hyposalinity, I'd drop the salinity a few hundredths each day til you get where you want to go with it. I usually don't go lower than 1.017 but some do. If you're opting for Cupramine, add it right away, and test it daily and re-dose as necessary.

If you are dosing meds into the QT, do not use any carbon filtration, no skimmer, no UV as these will remove/break down the medicine.

If you are going to treat with Metronidazole as a food additive in QT, you can run carbon, skimmer, UV if you wish.

Do not mix meds - interactions can occur - so pick a course of treatment and see it through.

Ich doesn't usually kill a fish outright - the secondary infection that has opportunity from bite sites is usually what gets it. The Metronidazole and Focus also have antibiotic properties and can help with this, so it's a good way to go.

Some copper meds can be harsh, but in my experience, Cupramine is a lot gentler on the fish. It's not a chelate or sulfate. But no matter what - if using *any* copper based med, TEST TEST TEST.

Jenn

Ok, that's perfect. I'll try to dig something up to put in the QT. Do you think that caulerpa from the main tank would work? I dunno how to keep it at the same temp, other then just having the light on all the time. The light is not a halide, or T5, or actinic, it's just a flourescent light. So, I think today is operation one: clean out the tank. I have a freshwater filter, but just my luck, I think it has carbon in it. I have a filter that I used to use, but I don't use it any more, it's in my garage, I also have a piece of live rock that's dried out (like the filter, they're in open air, no water) it came from my tank, I've had it out for a couple months, would that work? Testing now, gotta go.
Thanks again Jenn!

 

[jennm]

radha;369505 wrote: Ok, that's perfect. I'll try to dig something up to put in the QT. Do you think that caulerpa from the main tank would work? I dunno how to keep it at the same temp, other then just having the light on all the time. The light is not a halide, or T5, or actinic, it's just a flourescent light. So, I think today is operation one: clean out the tank. I have a freshwater filter, but just my luck, I think it has carbon in it. I have a filter that I used to use, but I don't use it any more, it's in my garage, I also have a piece of live rock that's dried out (like the filter, they're in open air, no water) it came from my tank, I've had it out for a couple months, would that work? Testing now, gotta go.
Thanks again Jenn!

I wouldn't use caulerpa. Do you have a filter pad, sponge or other matter in the main tank or sump that could be populated with bacteria? What I'm looking for is something that will transfer some of the denitrifying bacteria that exist in your main tank, to the QT which is barren of those. Bacteria colonize on surfaces - typically sand, rock... a dead piece of LR is more likely to foul the water at this point so do not use that.

You can use the FW filter - take the carbon out and give it a bit of a rinse, but as long as it gives decent flow that should work for the QT and you can always add a powerhead if you need a bit more water movement. If you plan to use medicated food, put a clean filter cartridge in the filter - if not, leave it out.

Light will be fine - fish don't need special light but let the QT settle out and run for a bit and check the temperature. You may not need a heater at this time of year depending on what your room temp is, but try to get it reasonably close to what the main tank is.

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369508 wrote: I wouldn't use caulerpa. Do you have a filter pad, sponge or other matter in the main tank or sump that could be populated with bacteria? What I'm looking for is something that will transfer some of the denitrifying bacteria that exist in your main tank, to the QT which is barren of those. Bacteria colonize on surfaces - typically sand, rock... a dead piece of LR is more likely to foul the water at this point so do not use that.

You can use the FW filter - take the carbon out and give it a bit of a rinse, but as long as it gives decent flow that should work for the QT and you can always add a powerhead if you need a bit more water movement. If you plan to use medicated food, put a clean filter cartridge in the filter - if not, leave it out.

Light will be fine - fish don't need special light but let the QT settle out and run for a bit and check the temperature. You may not need a heater at this time of year depending on what your room temp is, but try to get it reasonably close to what the main tank is.

Jenn

Thanks so much Jenn, your a lifesaver! I think I'm gonna have to use live sand. My dad's not too crazy about me setting up the QT, but I told him I have to, and now he's fine. He also wants to thank you for helping us. He wanted me to ask a question: if we have low iodide, would that make this happen? Let's say the regular for iodide is .06, we were at .01, this was 2 weeks ago, and we dosed 2 ml of reef iodide a week. We don't know if maybe it's too high now, so he's thinking that caused the ich... input?
What would you reccomend for my situation? The food or the other thing? Thanks a bunch Jenn, from me and my dad!!

 

[radha]

Oh, yes, here we are:
Nitrate~ 5
Nitrite~ 0
Calcium~ 400
pH~ 8.5
Phosphates~ 1.00
Salinity~ 1.027

 

[radha]

I'm hungry. I will BRB.

 

[radha]

Back. Chips taste good when you're hungry.

 

[cr500_af]

Not that it caused the ich or anything, but you should think about working on those nitrate and phosphate numbers. My phosphates were half that, and I had a massive dino outbreak... huge reduction in feeding and weeks (and lots of work) later it's pretty much gone. I can't imagine how tough it would have been to beat with phosphates at 1.00.

 

[radha]

cr500_af;369541 wrote: Not that it caused the ich or anything, but you should think about working on those nitrate and phosphate numbers. My phosphates were half that, and I had a massive dino outbreak... huge reduction in feeding and weeks (and lots of work) later it's pretty much gone. I can't imagine how tough it would have been to beat with phosphates at 1.00.

Ok, thanks! Nitrates I wasn't sure about, I feel like they are in the middle of 0 and 5. Like 3. I dunno, just 3 seems like a good number. Or 2.5. Somewhere there, if it is possible. I don't neccesarily think it was exactly 5 or 0

 

[jennm]

There's nothing jumping out at me in the parameters. Nitrate of 5 is very respectable and unlikely to be the cause of anything bad.

Iodide - be careful with that. Some is good, but more is not better. Iodide is more stable than iodine.

Typically the things that stress fish and cause outbreaks are aggression, pH and/or temperature swings, poor water quality (which yours is not - it's fine)... overstocking, stray voltage... and other factors that would otherwise "worry" the fish - make it ill-at-ease.

Of course water quality is the basis of all fish health - even if everything else is "perfect" if the water isn't - that will cause problems.

So your water is good - can you think of anything that may have caused the fish to be anxious or stressed? That's the beginning of finding out why it's sick and how to remedy it beyond treatment.

Do you have a pic of the sick fish? That might help ID the exact pathogen...

And if you must use sand in the QT - only use a small amount (like a cup full)... don't cover the bottom - you need to be able to vacuum out the tank well. In fact, if you must use sand, I'd leave it in a plastic tray or something, not scatter it on the bottom.

That sand will NOT be returned to the main tank.

Jenn

 

[cr500_af]

Thanks Jenn.... my mind was more on the phosphates. As you stated the nitrate isn't bad.

 

[jennm]

Phosphate at that level won't harm fish. It may interfere with Calcium and other trace elements for the corals, but IME it won't really bother fish at all. And it can grow a bumper crop of algae - but that's not harmful to fish either.

Jenn