What exactly do I do????

[radha]

JennM;369551 wrote: There's nothing jumping out at me in the parameters. Nitrate of 5 is very respectable and unlikely to be the cause of anything bad.

Iodide - be careful with that. Some is good, but more is not better. Iodide is more stable than iodine.

Typically the things that stress fish and cause outbreaks are aggression, pH and/or temperature swings, poor water quality (which yours is not - it's fine)... overstocking, stray voltage... and other factors that would otherwise "worry" the fish - make it ill-at-ease.

Of course water quality is the basis of all fish health - even if everything else is "perfect" if the water isn't - that will cause problems.

So your water is good - can you think of anything that may have caused the fish to be anxious or stressed? That's the beginning of finding out why it's sick and how to remedy it beyond treatment.

Do you have a pic of the sick fish? That might help ID the exact pathogen...

And if you must use sand in the QT - only use a small amount (like a cup full)... don't cover the bottom - you need to be able to vacuum out the tank well. In fact, if you must use sand, I'd leave it in a plastic tray or something, not scatter it on the bottom.

That sand will NOT be returned to the main tank.

Jenn

Great! Thanks Jenn! I'm trying to get a pic, but my fish is being a retard, and not letting me. I do have to tell you, we did put our hands in the tank and move a bunch of stuff around. That probably stressed her out. How quickly can the other fish catch this? My male clownfish is showing no signs of it, but I'm worried he'll get it too.
Thanks so much!!
Radha

 

[jennm]

They never sit still Some fish freak out when their keepers work in the tank - so that's possible factor. Not much you can do about it except take care when you're in the tank, and keep the fish well fed, good water and all that to keep the immune system strong.

A pic would be very helpful, or a very detailed description of the symptoms... is it slime-looking or salt grain looking? Can you count the spots, or are there too many to count... that sort of thing. I don't need to know "how many" but there's a big difference between a few spots (ie 5-10-ish) and it's totally covered - too many to count...

The appearance may tell us what it is too - if it's not salt grain looking it could be something completely different...

So gimme your best imagery

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369560 wrote: They never sit still Some fish freak out when their keepers work in the tank - so that's possible factor. Not much you can do about it except take care when you're in the tank, and keep the fish well fed, good water and all that to keep the immune system strong.

A pic would be very helpful, or a very detailed description of the symptoms... is it slime-looking or salt grain looking? Can you count the spots, or are there too many to count... that sort of thing. I don't need to know "how many" but there's a big difference between a few spots (ie 5-10-ish) and it's totally covered - too many to count...

The appearance may tell us what it is too - if it's not salt grain looking it could be something completely different...

So gimme your best imagery

Jenn

Ok Jenn.... if you insist... stay on here, I will be right back. I just have to walk 3 feet away and get you what you want!!

 

[radha]

Ok Jenn. Here we go...
It looks like grains of salt, almost like dandruff. 10+ spots. Getting to downloading the pics, but in the meantime, do you think it's urgent??

 

[radha]

Here are some pics, best I could get, the spots are visible, but the pics don't show all of them.
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[jennm]

Yep, that's a fair bet that it's ich.

You can also start with a freshwater bath... RO water, match temp. I'm going to suggest matching pH because somebody will scold me if I don't (but I don't match pH and I haven't in over 9 years of doing dips - but do as I say, not as I do, ok?)

Place the fish in the RO water for about 7 minutes. Keep an eye on the fish - it may pant, may turn on its side a bit - you can gently prod it to keep it upright. This will kill some of the parasites right away, before any medications start. Then place the fish in the QT and go from there.

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369574 wrote: Yep, that's a fair bet that it's ich.

You can also start with a freshwater bath... RO water, match temp. I'm going to suggest matching pH because somebody will scold me if I don't (but I don't match pH and I haven't in over 9 years of doing dips - but do as I say, not as I do, ok?)

Place the fish in the RO water for about 7 minutes. Keep an eye on the fish - it may pant, may turn on its side a bit - you can gently prod it to keep it upright. This will kill some of the parasites right away, before any medications start. Then place the fish in the QT and go from there.

Jenn

Great, so I should do this with freshwater, like top off water (but not the stuff I use to top it off, new top off water). Should I do this right before I put her in the QT, or can I do it right now? Thanks again, Jenn!

 

[jennm]

You can do either or, but I'd be inclined to do it right when you take her out of the main tank and before you put her in the QT... one set of "moves", less stress than moving her twice.

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369604 wrote: You can do either or, but I'd be inclined to do it right when you take her out of the main tank and before you put her in the QT... one set of "moves", less stress than moving her twice.

Jenn

Ok, stage one is complete, stage 2 is a-go!

 

[jennm]

Keep me posted

 

[cr500_af]

JennM;369553 wrote: Phosphate at that level won't harm fish. It may interfere with Calcium and other trace elements for the corals, but IME it won't really bother fish at all. And it can grow a bumper crop of algae - but that's not harmful to fish either.

Jenn

Yep... just trying to warn of a potential algae bomb waiting to go off. It did for me.

 

[radha]

JennM;369633 wrote: Keep me posted

Will do Jenn! Got everything cleaned out! Woo hoo! I need to figure out the filter, but I got the medication. I got Curpramine and Garlic Gaurd. Can I give them to the fish at the same time, or will they interfere with eachother? My daddy is comin home tommorow, I'm gonna get the tank cycled tommorow morning, before he comes home, and when he comes, I think it should be ready! Are you sure I shouldn't buff the freshwater? I was told to.... also, how much buffer should I put in? I'm not using the whole thing of freshwater, though.... Thanks a bunch Jenn, will attach pics of the process tommorow!!

 

[jennm]

OK...

Do buffer the water (I don't, but I get scolded here for it - so do as I say, not as I do, K? LOL) 7 minutes in the freshwater then into the QT.

Garlic Guard is a food additive - not a medicine. It will help boost the fish's immune system and stimulate it to eat (smells yummy)... so it's safe but don't add it to the water, just add it to the food.

Make sure you don't have any carbon in the filter - then carefully measure your dose of Cupramine. Add it to the water, wait 30 minutes or so, then test the level of copper to make sure you've achieved the proper concentration. Check this daily. You may have to dose again in 48 hours (I don't have a bottle in front of me ... or a frontal lobotomy for that matter LOL I'm tired - long day!). If you should accidentally overdose, water change or put carbon to remove it, and begin again. Being careful with dosing, you *should* get the right concentration right off the bat if you dose it as per directions but testing is imperative.

Then watch and wait. Keep a close eye on water quality because your QT is not really cycled. That will be the biggest obstacle - keeping the water quality up while trying to beef up the fish with good feedings.

I'm off to bed - gotta do a service call before I open the shop tomorrow and I just got home a few mins ago... no rest for the wicked (Muhahahaha)

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369757 wrote: OK...

Do buffer the water (I don't, but I get scolded here for it - so do as I say, not as I do, K? LOL) 7 minutes in the freshwater then into the QT.

Garlic Guard is a food additive - not a medicine. It will help boost the fish's immune system and stimulate it to eat (smells yummy)... so it's safe but don't add it to the water, just add it to the food.

Make sure you don't have any carbon in the filter - then carefully measure your dose of Cupramine. Add it to the water, wait 30 minutes or so, then test the level of copper to make sure you've achieved the proper concentration. Check this daily. You may have to dose again in 48 hours (I don't have a bottle in front of me ... or a frontal lobotomy for that matter LOL I'm tired - long day!). If you should accidentally overdose, water change or put carbon to remove it, and begin again. Being careful with dosing, you *should* get the right concentration right off the bat if you does it as per directions but testing is imperative.

Then watch and wait. Keep a close eye on water quality because your QT is not really cycled. That will be the biggest obstacle - keeping the water quality up while trying to beef up the fish with good feedings.

I'm off to bed - gotta do a service call before I open the shop tomorrow and I just got home a few mins ago... no rest for the wicked (Muhahahaha)

Jenn

Lol!! Don't leave me Jenn! No, I totally understand (you're abandoning me, that's just great)... I'm really nervous, ok, so the filter has carbon in it, how do I remove it, and keep it working?? And I should test the copper... right? I'll come here with the test results every day! How much buffer should I dose? 7 minutes? Really? I may not do the freshwater dip... it sounds complicated...
I'm doing 5 gallons saltwater, 5 gallons freshwater, so the salinity is gonna be a little low. Is that good?
Thanks Jenn, for all your guidance through the day!!
I needed that!!

 

[jennm]

I'm still here for a few - I won't leave you hanging (intentionally...).

Take out the filter cartridge. Run the filter just to circulate the water. Your biological is going to be somewhat lacking but it's based in the dish of sand we talked about earlier. The cartridge is mechanical/chemical filtration - not biological anyway (at least, not primarily). If you leave the cartridge in, that carbon will remove the Cupramine so the whole exercise will be a waste of time, and we don't want that.

What brand of buffer do you have? If it's Seachem, even if you overdose it a bit it shouldn't put your pH above 8.3. Add a bit to your RO dip water, mix it to dissolve, test the pH and add more if need be... the freshwater dip is not complicated, but it can be a bit nerve-wracking for a first-timer... just relax, and do it. Once you've done it you'll tell me that it wasn't all that scary after all.

Check the salinity of the QT water... if you're going to do hypo, it's fine to move the fish directly into that from the FW dip. I usually don't do lower than 1.017 but some folks might suggest going lower than that. 1.017 is in my comfort zone, so that's what I'm going to recommend.

Let me know

And while I'm heading off to bed soon, I often have insomnia so I may check the thread again at some ungodly hour.

Jenn

 

[radha]

JennM;369764 wrote: I'm still here for a few - I won't leave you hanging (intentionally...).

Take out the filter cartridge. Run the filter just to circulate the water. Your biological is going to be somewhat lacking but it's based in the dish of sand we talked about earlier. The cartridge is mechanical/chemical filtration - not biological anyway (at least, not primarily). If you leave the cartridge in, that carbon will remove the Cupramine so the whole exercise will be a waste of time, and we don't want that.

What brand of buffer do you have? If it's Seachem, even if you overdose it a bit it shouldn't put your pH above 8.3. Add a bit to your RO dip water, mix it to dissolve, test the pH and add more if need be... the freshwater dip is not complicated, but it can be a bit nerve-wracking for a first-timer... just relax, and do it. Once you've done it you'll tell me that it wasn't all that scary after all.

Check the salinity of the QT water... if you're going to do hypo, it's fine to move the fish directly into that from the FW dip. I usually don't do lower than 1.017 but some folks might suggest going lower than that. 1.017 is in my comfort zone, so that's what I'm going to recommend.

Let me know

And while I'm heading off to bed soon, I often have insomnia so I may check the thread again at some ungodly hour.

Jenn

Heading to bed, too, need my beauty sleep (and I don't want my mom yelling at me!) I will check the salinity, it's always around 1.025 when I get it. I am just really nervous about the whole dip thing, I think the QT will be easy (or as easy as reefing can go, lol), but just the whole thing scares me. Relax and do it... you should see me. I once caught a grasshopper, it got out in the house, instead of catching it, I screamed, ran, and hid! How's that for relaxed!? The filter is a freshwater filter, so you know, but if you think the best thing is to set up my salwater filter, I can do that (it'll just take longer, and involve more stress). I'm probably gonna put my koralia in there, the display doesn't need it (even though it's a nano, it blows EVERYTHING over), if that will help?
Gotta go, my mom is starting to blow it!
Have a good night Jenn!
Thanks a bunch,
Radha

 

[tjherman]

Ick, Ich! Radha, I hope you are remembering to breathe! Keep us updated on your fish.

 

[jennm]

If it's a hang on the back filter - it does not matter. The filter is a filter - period. You will want it to move water, period. The powerhead will help too. Just leave out the filter cartridge or you will be wasting your time. The carbon in the filter cartridge will remove the Cupramine, so that's why you must omit it.

You can do this... take a breath... relax. You have a plan, now you just need to implement it.

If I can do it, you can do it. You should have seen the look on my face the first day I worked at a LFS and my boss pointed me over to the shop's quarantine system and told me to freshwater dip the $250 Annularis. I did it just like he told me to - and it worked (in that case the fish had flukes and it looked like a snow globe in the container after he was done!)... it freaked me out a bit too - but I did it, and everything was fine.

Look at it this way - if you do nothing for the fish, it's not likely to get well on its own (it could.. but the odds are against that)... so anything you try is both a help as well as a learning experience.

You can do it - I know you can.

Jenn

 

[cr500_af]

Jenn, just wanted to give you props. You guys (there are a few of you) who take the time to share your vast knowledge and help people make the club membership dues worth it a hundred times over.
Kudos!

 

[jennm]

Thanks Barry. I appreciate that very much.

Without hobbyists, we the shopkeepers wouldn't have anything to do, now would we?

The way I see it, it's a win/win situation.

Jenn (now I *really* need to get to bed... I'm getting too old to defy bedtime!)