What salt do you use? Why?

[justonemoretank]

For a FO tank = whatever you can get for a good deal. Mix it to the correct salinity and pH and you are fine

For a Reef Tank = you are going to want good Ca and Alk of course. I am a bit leery of Seachem and the Borate thing as well. As far as I know the coral cannot use the Borate which helps keep the Alk elevated... therefore there is less Alk available for the coral to consume??? Then when you test the water the test kit tells you that you are good with Alk but the corals are starving for more??? *shrug*
I like mixing Oceanic and Reef Crystals for my reef tank. The Oceanic has pretty good levels of Ca so that helps me not have to add that later to the fresh mix.

Also I remember reading a long while back that freshly mixed salt water is pretty caustic and is not good for coral and fish. I always let my newly made saltwater circulate in the Brute can for 24 hours before it goes into the tank.

 

[ouling]

salt isn't just salt when you have over $2000 worth of stuff in your tank.

like i said before, Oceanic works because it's almost 99.99% consistent because it is evaporated ocean water; not mixing up batches of synthetic stuff. Its calcium and alk is always NSW, but NSW alk always been a bit low for my fancy so i add crap in it.

 

[kwl1763]

ouling;45153 wrote: salt isn't just salt when you have over $2000 worth of stuff in your tank.

like i said before, Oceanic works because it's almost 99.99% consistent because it is evaporated ocean water; not mixing up batches of synthetic stuff. Its calcium and alk is always NSW, but NSW alk always been a bit low for my fancy so i add crap in it.

Ya it is. I've got way more then that. It's irrelevant.

Oceanic is not just evaporated seawater. your sadly mistaken there. It's made much the same as all the others.

Look at their own site

http://www.oceanicsystems.com/#loaded">http://www.oceanicsystems.com/#loaded</a>

"Our special manufacturing process generates a microcrystal", etc. etc. It has also had level issues in the past as most have.

 

[ouling]

in the back of their box it say natural ocean salt... Natural to me means it's not made in a factory or not synthetic.

 

[george]

ouling;45164 wrote: in the back of their box it say natural ocean salt... Natural to me means it's not made in a factory or not synthetic.

I'm not sure of the governing rules for aquarium salt, but I can say that in the case of the FDA, "Natural" as applies to food does not necessarily mean that the product is made from anything harvested from nature or even conforms to the same chemical structure as the real deal. From a legal standpoint, the only requirement is that it is sufficiently indistinguishable (no idea where that line is drawn) from the actual naturally occurring item. It can still be made in a factory and wholly synthetic.

The key from Oceanic's site I see is "has been developed with all of the beneficial elements found in natural seawater" which would fit the FDA version of "natural" but imply that they somehow left out what was considered inappropriate/not beneficial/useless but would be found in evaporated sea water.

 

[FutureInterest]

Their website also says from "natural sources" and the description implies it is constructed much the same as any other artificial sea salt out there. George is right on the FDA's stance on natural and to be quite honest there are almost no legal restrictions on using the term natural in describing one's product. The only restriction out there that comes close is for "natural" flavors which are those derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf and even animal based materials.

Many natural flavors and artificial flavors will have the same chemical compound and in some cases the artificial flavor is healthier as some of the methods of deriving the flavors from natural products involves harsh, potentially harmful chemicals. Yet, the natural flavor will be much more expensive just so the consumers will be happy seeing "natural" flavors on the ingredients list. Consumers get duped into thinking it must be better since it's "natural" when in truth its far from it... I get the feeling that's the same thing with Oceanic salt. Sure it says "natural", but that doesn't make it any better than something that's "artifcial". They're still both synthetic. That being said, if it works for you more power to you. IMO they're all relatively the same.

 

[george]

FutureInterest;45186 wrote: The only restriction out there that comes close is for "natural" flavors which are those derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf and even animal based materials.

The FDA doesn't require these to be naturally derived either. While they do have the biggest restrictions on conformity to the naturally occurring version for taste or smell, they can be completely synthetic as well. "Contains Natural and Artificial Flavors" doesn't necessarily mean it contains anything from the real deal. It might, but then it might just contain some of the expensive "natural" synthetic formula and some of the much cheaper, but not allowed to be called "natural", synthetic formula.

I only happen to have info on this because I was discussing soap with my father who had http://www.iff.com/">International Flavors & Fragrances</a> as a client for many years and knows the patent and legal restrictions on those things inside an out. He commented that, while something like Ivory soap is pure soap (i.e. 99% surfactant chemicals), things like Tom's of Maine and other "Natural" soaps may or may not derive their so-called natural fragrances and additives from actual natural sources.

The soap conversation grew out of discussing the chemical impact of using soap to remove a oily/petroleum compound that had accidentally spilled a bit inside an empty aquarium and the best way to remove it while leaving the absolute minimum potential residual impact on fish. We decided that Ivory was the way to go since it doesn't even contain oils normally found in home made or home made formulated soap. So if you need to clean a tank in this manner, break out the original formula Ivory.

 

[FutureInterest]

By "derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, etc. etc " I didn't intend any implication that the natural flavor created must come from the real source. To call something a natural flavor its base components must be derived from "natural" sources as I listed above. It'll have the same chemical composition as the artifical flavor and taste nothing like it was derived from. It just has a different source for its chemical composition than the artificial flavors.

What's scary is that these "natural" flavors are in almost everything we eat. Did you know they use artificial beef flavor in McDonald's french fries?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Being the skeptic I am, I find it very hard to believe Oceanic would "make" salt in this manner. Not withstanding any of the arguments made above- have you ever seen how much solid is left from evaporating saltwater? Not much. Do an experiment, and see for yourself. In order to make a 5 gallon bucket would involve evaporating such an immense amount of saltwater under sterile and closed conditions, somehow collecting it without contaminating, and packaging it. How many 5 gallon buckets of this salt mix is available? Do the math. This cannot be economical in the slightest.

Of course, I am just speculating, perhaps they have a technique to do this in an effecient way.

 

[george]

FutureInterest;45192 wrote: To call something a natural flavor its base components must be derived from "natural" sources as I listed above.

This is the part that isn't really true any more than natural salt has to use seawater. Use of the term "natural" does not require origins in any actual natural sources or that it be created from such. FDA rules stipulate that the resultant compound merely accurately mimic the real deal. That is to say that "Natural Strawberry Flavor" need not have anything in it actually derived from strawberries so long as its flavor is indistinguishable to the human palette. There's big bucks and serious science behind determining exactly what chemicals in a particular natural/real source actually deliver the taste and exactly how many of those need to be synthesized or mimicked in order to fool a human.

 

[kwl1763]

Either way Oceanic is made much like every other salt (manufactured with minerals, etc) and not just evaporated seawater. It's no more "natural" (whatever it means) then any other. Ya and even the idea evaporating is just crazy. It would cost huge amounts to do that.

 

[FutureInterest]

Off topic:

George;45198 wrote: This is the part that isn't really true any more than natural salt has to use seawater. Use of the term "natural" does not require origins in any actual natural sources or that it be created from such. FDA rules stipulate that the resultant compound merely accurately mimic the real deal.

Actually, you're the one that's incorrect . If what you were saying was correct then why would then there would be a slippery slope on what an artificial vs natural flavor would be. Here read this article I just digged up with google. No I will not use google as a verb .

http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/6046">http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/6046</a>

On topic:
Totally agree with kwl and panda... I didn't think about the cost of evaporating that much sea water. Perhaps they just mine oceanic salt deposits... but why would they when its prolly cheaper to do otherwise.

 

[FutureInterest]

Off topic:

George;45198 wrote: This is the part that isn't really true any more than natural salt has to use seawater. Use of the term "natural" does not require origins in any actual natural sources or that it be created from such. FDA rules stipulate that the resultant compound merely accurately mimic the real deal.

Actually, you're the one that's incorrect . If what you were saying was correct then there would be an all too slippery slope on what an artificial vs natural flavor would be. Here read this article I just digged up with google it should explain the real demarcation between artificial and natural flavors. If it doesn't then I'm sure you'll find better articles online. And no I won't use google as a verb .

http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/6046">http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/6046</a>

On topic:
Totally agree with kwl and panda... I didn't think about the cost of evaporating that much sea water. Perhaps they just mine oceanic salt deposits... but why would they when its prolly cheaper to just mix low grade ingredients together.

 

[ouling]

Ding dong? I now use Tropic Marine Reef salt because their label have more stuff on it, it also sound really fancy from what i've seen on the back of their box.

The only way to judge a salt is by reading what the manufacturer have to advertise; more technical the better.

And since I use Tropic Marine Reef, their salt is completely natural made from evap water with added secret exotic elements that turns your water into deuterium and tridium to make your coral absorb the alpha radiation emitted by your metal halides and use the energy to grow and glow in the dark.

Pwnage

 

[FutureInterest]

Instead of basing your opinions on the back of the box and the hype machines... why not do some research?

Here read these:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1"><span style="color: #000088;">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1</span></a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1</a>

"Tropic Marin Sea Salt has high Copper and ties with Omega Sea for the highest Chromium levels. "

 

[ouling]

did you not sense that my post was a joke? Have you missed the thing about Deutrium and Tridium? Why so serious and trying to prove others being ingorant and wrong?

No matter what salt I bring up I bet you will spend 30 mins of your time trying to find something wrong with it and compose a grave response on your position (with hyperlinks). Every mix of sea salt have problems... I never said it was perfect.

 

[FutureInterest]

Lol. That was a joke? With you its really hard to tell.

To be truthful I didn't read your whole post, just the tropic marin line. Then I took the time to find you some posts I thought would be helpful since you're kinda all over the place on the salt thing. So chill, I'm just trying to help. I'm not trying to make you look stupid, you're bringing that back yourself with great success!

 

[james s_]

Ive been using Kent for about three years now.I have had Alk. and Cal. issues in the past but ive never been convinced it was from the salt I used.Im surprised others dont use Kent? Any reasons why I should not use Kent?

 

[ouling]

I just started using kent because it cost $25 for 200gallon bucket. I'ma start making my own salt when this batch runs out.

 

[ouling]

jmaneyapanda;45194 wrote: Being the skeptic I am, I find it very hard to believe Oceanic would "make" salt in this manner. Not withstanding any of the arguments made above- have you ever seen how much solid is left from evaporating saltwater? Not much. Do an experiment, and see for yourself. In order to make a 5 gallon bucket would involve evaporating such an immense amount of saltwater under sterile and closed conditions, somehow collecting it without contaminating, and packaging it. How many 5 gallon buckets of this salt mix is available? Do the math. This cannot be economical in the slightest.

Of course, I am just speculating, perhaps they have a technique to do this in an effecient way.

Only water evaporate-pure water, and all elements are left behind.

panda, I did the math, and if a 50lb bucket can make almost 200gallon of salt, we must assume that 200g of seawater evaporates into 50lb of salt. make sense to you? I'm not sure where you get the thing about how little is left behind by evaporate seawater; but if you ever look at your salt splashes around your tank you will see one drip leaves a pretty good sized ring of salt.

"Natural, evaporated sea salt is enriched with refined minerals to safely elevate calcium levels and buffer capacity."
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=15483&N=2004+113009">http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=15483&N=2004+113009</a>

Being a "skeptic" you may think elsewise, but if they advertise something like this there have to be some truth in it, and the procedure, after doing "the math", is not a serious problem-at least not to Red Sea.

Where you think they get the sea salt that you eat at Outback Steak House? you think they chemically make those too?