Whats the best way to reduce phosphates?

grouper therapy · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;688901 wrote: You must export the same or more nutrients than you put in. Overfeeding, tap water, high phosphate foods, etc. 

Water changes will do little for phosphate reduction as phates bind and get absorbed in rock, sand, algae, etc. 

If you choose GFO, you’ll need to start VERY SLOWLY! Use 25% of the recommended media, slowly increasing every week. You need to acclimate your tank inhabitants over at least a 2 month period especially is you have any stony corals. Once acclimated you’ll need to change your Iron based media in the phosphate reactor more often. Your media will get saturated within 2 weeks or so depending upon how much is bound up in your rocks, tank, algae, etc. Use less media, change every 2 weeks. Use a great test kit like DD Merck, Hack, or colormeter or even Elos. If you already have a fuge & reactor, be aggressive & change the media every 2 weeks.

I use a dual reactor from BRS with GFO & Carbon. I change about every 10-14 days. 

When you do your water change, take the end of the hose and suck all the algae down like a vacuum. It'll take a few water changes, but it works (especially after the phosphate remover kicks in)

Use a phosphate reactor with some GFO, and something to lower nitrates like a fuge, Vodka, VSV, Solid Vodka Pellets (bio-pellets) or other carbon source. 

check out:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php">http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/eb/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/eb/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm</a>

[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1349443">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1349443</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm</a>

VSV:
[IMG]http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php">http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...nftt/index.php</a>

[IMG]http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225324">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1225324</a>

[IMG]http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22849&highlight=vodka">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ighlight=vodka</a>[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Water changes will remove more of the phosphates in the water column and faster than any other method. It will not remove the phosphate that has been absorbed in the rock, sand etc. but neither will the other methods since they remove from the water column as well.

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

grouper therapy;689201 wrote: I disagree. Water changes will remove more of the phosphates in the water column and faster than any other method. It will not remove the phosphate that has been absorbed in the rock, sand etc. but neither will the other methods since they remove from the water column as well.

a water change will do little to remove phosphates, since usually, the majority is bound up in sand and rock. GFO removes the phates from the water column, 24-7, albeit at a deteriorating rate as gfo binds more phates....So, GFO lowers the phates (layman's terms....) in the water, and more leaches out of the rock....In most instances the amount of phates removed from the water change will be leached out of the rock within hours...

grouper therapy · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;689207 wrote: a water change will do little to remove phosphates, since usually, the majority is bound up in sand and rock. GFO removes the phates from the water column, 24-7, albeit at a deteriorating rate as gfo binds more phates....So, GFO lowers the phates (layman's terms....) in the water, and more leaches out of the rock....In most instances the amount of phates removed from the water change will be leached out of the rock within hours...

The gfo is what I use but is a much slower process. Water changes will remove more phosphates faster than any other method that are in the water column period. How much leeches in to the column from the rock has nothing to do with how the phosphates are removed. L

umbrellacorp · Sep 20, 2011

also.. if you want to test your phosphates at home, the best kit is the marine sea marine and fresh water phosphate test kit. i have tried three others and they were all horrible compared to this one. its the only one i can accurately read according to the colors. i got it at warehouse aquarium.

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

grouper therapy;689210 wrote: The gfo is what I use but is a much slower process. Water changes will remove more phosphates faster than any other method that are in the water column period. How much leeches in to the column from the rock has nothing to do with how the phosphates are removed. L

Disagree, I guess ll just leave it at that.

lilrobb · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;689237 wrote: Disagree, I guess ll just leave it at that.

It's a fact - same as with bacteria, (just opposite) close to none in the water, and all in the rocks.
Phosphates (same as any other nutrient) more in the water than anywhere else.

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

UmbrellaCorp;689226 wrote: also.. if you want to test your phosphates at home, the best kit is the marine sea marine and fresh water phosphate test kit. i have tried three others and they were all horrible compared to this one. its the only one i can accurately read according to the colors. i got it at warehouse aquarium.

Never heard of it, the best ones that I am familiar with as already stated is HACH, DD Merck, Colormeter, and maybe the new Elos. they read the low end very well.

Edit:

LilRobb;689238 wrote: It's a fact - same as with bacteria, (just opposite) close to none in the water, and all in the rocks.
Phosphates (same as any other nutrient) more in the water than anywhere else.

Maybe that's why you have a phosphate issue and I don't.

Jaycen B. · Sep 20, 2011

I bought some live rock for a new setup a few years ago, from someone else's tank and it leached phosphate like mad. I had to double my water changes and run gfo to get it in check. Water changes do help up front but coupled with the gfo it did not take long to resolve the issue.
Learning frome that experience, I have ben using gfo from day one in my 210 and will continue to do so.

lilrobb · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;689239 wrote:
Maybe that's why you have a phosphate issue and I don't.

Did you run out of scientific arguments for your thesis?

If your statement would be correct, why bother to use any testkit to measure PO4 concentration in the WATER?

It is a basic mathematical rule that if you replace a certain percentage of anything A with the same quantity of something else B that you lowered the total quantity of A now by X percent.

A 50% waterchange reduces any contaminant in your tank by (oh wonder) 50%, assuming clean water was used.

Not for nothing, the solution for pollution is dilution!

grouper therapy · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;689207 wrote: a water change will do little to remove phosphates, since usually, the majority is bound up in sand and rock. GFO removes the phates from the water column, 24-7, albeit at a deteriorating rate as gfo binds more phates....So, GFO lowers the phates (layman's terms....) in the water, and more leaches out of the rock....In most instances the amount of phates removed from the water change will be leached out of the rock within hours...

Exactly then do another water change.

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

Yes, the po4 in the water column will be reduced with a water change, but since the rocks, sand will continuously leach po4 back in the water, water changes have little effect. It's not feasible to continually do water changes to reduce po4, therefore another PO4 binding method should be used such as GFO...

And HACH and DD Merck are more accurate than Colormeter, btw.

Edit:

grouper therapy · Sep 20, 2011

mysterybox;689326 wrote: Yes, the po4 in the water column will be reduced with a water change, but since the rocks, sand will continuously leach po4 back in the water, water changes have little effect. It's not feasible to continually do water changes to reduce po4, therefore another PO4 binding method should be used such as GFO...

And HACH and DD Merck are more accurate than Colormeter, btw.

Edit:

You are assuming that the rocks and such are leeching phosphates and that simply may not be the case. To say that water changes are ineffective is not accurate . How long do you think the phosphate will leach out?In your particular situation your phosphates may have been at a very high level with in your substrate that water changes were not that effective.

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

please read this:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php">http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php</a>

and....

[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2016637&highlight=phosphate">"You need to deplete the phosphate bound to the rock over time. The best way to do that is with aggressive phosphate binder use. Like GFO. Change it every day if the levels stay that high"</a>

general:

[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1960242&highlight=phosphate">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1960242&highlight=phosphate</a>

Edit:

Edit: [IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/10/aafeature">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/10/aafeature</a>

[IMG]http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature/">http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature/</a>

and here

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

Phosphate bind on live rock and sand extensively, that's the part you two are missing.

smallblock · Sep 20, 2011

I'm siding with ralph on this one, I see his point completely. Seems his point is saying that a WC is more temporary that final even if you cut out the phosphate entering the tank.

acroholic · Sep 20, 2011

I think everyone is correct to a point. Limit what phosphate you can (Barry's food example) going into the tank and remove what you can via WCs, GFO, Lanthanum Chloride, skimming, macro algae growth/harvesting, mechanical filtration (filter socks), precipitation via kalkwasser. Did I miss anything? I have never thought there was the one way, but it is a multi prong approach, like nitrate removal.

grouper therapy · Sep 20, 2011

I've read most of those Ralph. like I said I use GFO and like Acroholic said there are many ways to remove and control phosphates including water changes now shut up and enjoy your wine

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

Ok!

Edit: Lol

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2073428">Rob & Dave check this out...I hope it explains better than I have done!</a>

my memory on this subject is haphazard at best now....it's been a while!

ralph atl · Sep 20, 2011

hummmmm.....I guess.....

<div class="gc_ifarem_title">Nobody Home - YouTube</div>

Whats the best way to reduce phosphates?

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