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Whats the best way to reduce phosphates?
- Thread starter 90gallon4me
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What happens to PO4 that is released back into the water column? Does it instantly get pulled out of the water column? Are you assured that all the water in your system passes over the gfo in 24?36?48? hours?
Edit: you in the wine tonight?
Edit: you in the wine tonight?
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OMG, Dave.............yes, continuous water changes will remove the phosphate, BUT I'VE REPEATEDLY STATED THAT AS IMPRACTICAL! WHO CONTINUOUSLY HAS A SYSTEM WHERE THEIR WATER IS CHANGED OUT ANEW WITH FRESHLY MADE SALTWATER!!!!
Hence, GFO...or some other method of constantly pulling from the water column which is constantly being resaturated from the live rock, sand, etc & food & pop!
Hence, GFO...or some other method of constantly pulling from the water column which is constantly being resaturated from the live rock, sand, etc & food & pop!
Good thread all. Gave me a good read and some ideas. First step...new food source. Right now I'm using frozen mysis, Ocean Nutrition brine, Ocean Nutrition Formula 2 and the occasional pellet. All frozen food gets rinse but I'm not sure if enough of the phosphates are getting removed.
Suggestions on what to replace the Ocean Nutrition stuff maybe?
Suggestions on what to replace the Ocean Nutrition stuff maybe?
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Your are right GFO is the way to go as I am sure that is what you use as I do as well.
Your original statement that water changes do very little in the control of phosphates is simply inaccurate. Your reasoning that the phosphates binding on the substrate is what prevents water changes from being effective makes absolutely no sense. The substrate will release the same amount of po3 in the water column regardless of what is used to remove them. ???ppm right after a water change or over the next 24 hours what is the difference? X amount of phosphates go in x amount go out. I personally think the best way to lower the po3 in a system is with many large water changes (the quickest anyway) and then maintain those low levels with GFO .
What's up with the valley girl "OMG". Don't you dare call me out on my persistence in discussion ,MR Fence Post!
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Hey Ralph do you still dose Vodka ?
I am not sure how you think basic math is wrong.
If there is PO4 in the rocks, it will leach out until the concentration between rock and water is equalized.
How you get the PO4 concentration in the water down is completely secondary - if you get it down, more PO4 will now leach from the rocks into the water.
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1. nutritious food without so much garbage
2. 10-14 day water changes (minimal reduction in phates, but much improvement in Trates)
3. GFO or other constant binding material (changed at 10-14 day intervals)
4. Vodka or other carbon dosing system
5. heavy skimming (might be minimal)
2. 10-14 day water changes (minimal reduction in phates, but much improvement in Trates)
3. GFO or other constant binding material (changed at 10-14 day intervals)
4. Vodka or other carbon dosing system
5. heavy skimming (might be minimal)
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Edit: <span style="font-size: 17px"><span style="color: Red">GFO</span></span>
I'll try to paint a picture for you, Ralph:
Let's imagine a cup of nice hot coffee, you drop a solid piece of sugar in it.
Now based on the law of diffusion, after the time x this crystal will be completely dissolved and the coffee in equilibrium (sugar concentration wise).
If you now drink half the coffee and replace it with fresh coffee - voila, half the sugar content.
If you do this while the crystal is still dissolving, you also cut the current concentration in half, but (!) it will raise again until the complete crystal is dissolved and the mix is in equilibrium. (which, measured in ppm, is now a good bit lower in sugar concentration than in case A)
I agree that the phosphates will over time leach back into the water, but the means of removal play ZERO role in here.
Let's imagine a cup of nice hot coffee, you drop a solid piece of sugar in it.
Now based on the law of diffusion, after the time x this crystal will be completely dissolved and the coffee in equilibrium (sugar concentration wise).
If you now drink half the coffee and replace it with fresh coffee - voila, half the sugar content.
If you do this while the crystal is still dissolving, you also cut the current concentration in half, but (!) it will raise again until the complete crystal is dissolved and the mix is in equilibrium. (which, measured in ppm, is now a good bit lower in sugar concentration than in case A)
I agree that the phosphates will over time leach back into the water, but the means of removal play ZERO role in here.
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For the last 5-6 years since I have been trying to measure P04, I have always had an undetectible reading even with a colormeter, but I have strong algae growth. I even tried NOT feeding for a few years but that did not stop the growth. Only by using GFO am I able to slow/stall the growth. When I notice the algea growing again, I know it is time to change the GFO.
This approach (i.e., carbon dosing) has worked for me with one exception. I quit GFO as it was counter-productive to my carbon-dosing routine (similarly, I quit UV as it was counter-productive). In addition to live rock, I've used matrix, KZ, or Fauna Marin porous media to provide add'l surface area for the carbon-fed bacteria.
These bacteria do a great job of sequestering P as well as N (outcompeting macro algae). Skimmer is critical, in a carbon-dosed system, in removing excess bacteria (and as a result more P and N) in the water column.
Assuming you effectively remove P and N, reaching an ultra low nutrient state, it becomes even more important to "feed" your corals.
This approach has worked well for me.
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