Cucowlr?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Got her all cleaned up, and ready to fill up for a run with clean water for a couple of days. After that, a rinse, and filled with RO/DI saltwater in preparation for livestock...

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Hope everybody is doing well. A couple of questions...

In setting up the QT tank that will house all fish while the DT is in fallow, I've read plenty of threads about the QT tank but some have been conflicting.

- Some threads say set it up with water from the DT, but, I'm scared of this as I am unsure what is in the water column of the DT. All parameters are OK, but, the unknown items are what scare me.

- If I set up the DT with new water, does it have to cycle? Do I need to throw in a raw shrimp, and wait a for the full cycle to complete, or can I set up with new water and some PVC, and go from there?

- New livestock: I am one of the many that would like to buy baby fish and raise them. The question is: Do older, mature fish fare better in a new tank than a younger fish? Seems as if older mature fish may be able to fend off disease better than younger fish??? Would it make sense for me to look at older, mature fish than younger fish for a tank my age?

Thanks all...
 
As for the cycle on the QT it all depends. If you are starting with some new un-cycled media then yes, it would have to go through a cycle process just like the DT did. Using water from the DT will not do anything to quicken the cycle because the bacteria do not live in the water but on the surfaces. In your DT, the live rock is that surface which is why it is called "Live".

Here is what I do for my QT. I keep a couple of bags of Matrix in my sump at all times. That way, bacteria will colonize on the matrix. When I need a QT I will pull a bag or two out and put it in the QT. Thereby, the QT doesn't need to cycle. The bacteria needed to convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate is already present in the matrix.

The reason people use water from the DT for the QT is to save money on salt. The draw back is that anything that is in the water column of the DT will be transferred to the QT. So, if ich is present in the DT and you use some of that water, you are transferring the ich to the QT and defeating your purpose. If you know you have a clean DT with no issues, the only real drawback is that the nutrients you are exporting from the DT are going into the QT. Not a big deal as long as nitrates are not too high. Fish can tolerate higher amounts of nitrate than most corals can.

As for young fish or older fish it kind of depends. I would assume that an older fish has survived a few close calls where as a younger one hasn't. But, to me the bigger issue is where did it come from. An older fish that you picked up from an experienced refer who has cared well for them and who you trust when they say they have no disease in the tank will have a better chance of surviving should your tank have a small issue. What it really boils down to is two things. How strong is the immune system on the fish and how big is the issue that may pop up in your tank.

As someone who is still pretty new I would say that it would be best to look at the type of fish. Try to stay away from the expensive ones and look for ones that are hardy. Don't try to stock you tank to the max for a long time. That way, as you are learning, you are not putting a lot of fish in a situation that may turn bad without you having the knowledge and means to correct it in time. I know from experience how hard it is to watch all the fish you have become attached to expire over the course of a week. I never want to go through that again.

All that sounds like an insurmountable task but it really isn't if you go slow.
 
rdnelson99: You always come through with some good reasoning. Thanks Man...

I am not going to have any sand or live rock in the QT. I will only have some pieces of PVC which is brand new, so it will receive a quick boil, then into the QT at the same time as the raw shrimp.

I'll be pulling the skimmer from the DT and moving it to the QT, along with a HOB filter , so, I'm, guessing they will need to be running during the cycle as well, correct?

Amen to staying away from the expensive, and looking for the hardy. All of my expensive, nice looking fish are dead and gone. The only fish that have survived are the cheap gobies. LOL... I'm seriously considering never getting a tang again.

I guess it's pretty much hit or miss when it comes to new livestock regardless of age? QT can help minimize the risk, but, not guarantee that the fish will not have issues on down the road regardless of it's environment, huh?

Well, wish me luck everybody...
 
You are welcome. What do you have for the bacteria to grow on in the QT? In the DT the live rock is porous which gives lots of surface area. A HOB filter wont have a lot of surface area. That is why a bag of matrix or something like that is good to have. You can use live rock but, if you medicate the medication will be in the live rock and you wouldn't want to move it back to the DT. Matrix is a good alternatitive (much cheaper than live rock).

As for tangs, I now have three. All are pretty good size but all came from members. I knew one had been in a tank that had ich at one point but had survived. The other two came from a very experienced reefer who says his tank ALWAYS has ich. Sure enough, a couple days after coming out of QT they all three have some ich. But, with proper treatment and heavy feeding they are fighting it off. I was nervous after the battle I had with brooklynella but trusted what others have taught me. While the war has not been won yet, all the battles are going in my favor. I am confidant that all the fish will pull through and be a bit stonger for it.
 
Just did a quick google on the Matrix. Some use it in the filter for media, and some use it as sort of a substrate... Looks like a gallon is cheap enough, so I may aim at both...

I followed your previous battle. Glad to see you are pulling through and can share your advice with others.

Sheesh. This is truly an expensive hobby. I thought it was expensive enough to buy the tank, and get it started, looks like it's gonna be costly to re-start it too. I've got the money, just ain't a fan of spending it on something without a definite ROI. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so stubborn. I like a challenge, and whatever forces me to learn and be innovative. I think I've found it. Ain't gonna let this beat me. I'm gonna figure out how to have a 120 gallon tank with 100 tangs in it. Just kidding, but, seriously, where there is a will, there is a way...

Thanks all!!!
 
Great attitude. :) I share the desire to be challenged. I bet most people in this hobby do.

As for using matrix as a substrate that would be fine. There is one argument against having substrate in a QT though. I have been told that leaving a bare bottom tank will allow you to see what is collecting on the bottom. This can be helpful in determining what problem you may have with a fish. But as with everything in this hobby, there are not rules set in stone.
 
Quick question everybody... My matrix should be her Monday or Tuesday. I was going to go ahead and toss in the raw shrimp today, when it hit me. I was in the process of mixing the water and wondered if it was necessary to have the water at the right salinity for the cycle to run through? I had the right salinity the first time in the DT, but wanted to know if it would be a successful cycle without the salt. Not trying to cut corners. Just trying to learn as much as I can, and know why certain stuff is necessary. Not sure why salt is necessary to produce ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite since they all can be present in freshwater.

Thanks all!!!
 
The bacteria that thrive in saltwater are different that those that thrive in fresh. If you do it in fresh water it will die off as soon as you add salt and you will be back to square one.
 
HaHaHa!!! As soon as I typed in that question, I knew you would be the first to reply.

Got it. Just like FW ich is different than SW ich, so goes it for bacteria...

Thanks Man!!!
 
What's up everyone?

Been doing some contemplating while I wait on my QT to cycle.

Here is what I'm considering for stock:

Current fish:
<ul>
<li>3 red firefish</li>
<li>1 Engineer goby</li>
<li>2 unknown gobies</li>
</ul>Additional future stock:
<ul>
<li>2 clowns</li>
<li>2 japanese swallowtail angelfish
<ul>
<li></li>
<li>1 male</li>
<li>1 female</li>
</ul></li>
<li>1 eibli mimic tang</li>
<li>1 starry blenny</li>
</ul>Thoughts??? Anybody have experience with any of these? Are they pretty hardy fish? Ich magnets?

Thanks all!!!
 
Firefish will fight, often until death, unless a male/female pair.
 
I have 3 in there now. Never had any issues. Every blue moon, one will dart at the other just one time, but, it never goes beyond that. I'll keep my eye on them...

Thanks...
 
Just wanted to give everybody an update of what I've been up to. First, I wanted to say THANKS for all of the advice you all have shared!!!! THANKS...

Got my RO/DI hooked up and running. You woould be surprised how dirty the first batch of water is. Highly advise that you follow the break-in instructions and throw out the first 5 gallons, or so...

RO/DI located in laundry room. Waste water often used to wash cars that I work on my car and cut grass in...
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First Batch of waste water. Filthy...
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First Batch of cleaned water. First 8 gallons was discarded as a break in..
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Water mixing station. 35 Gallon tub. Once filled, I measure and add salt, then throw in a couple of powerheads for about 8 hours...
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Edit: QT tank filled with fresh mixed saltwater treated with Seachem Prime. I RO/DI dipped a couple of pieces of LR from the DT, and addem them here to start some seeding. LR will be removed and replaced with PVC that I added as well. I'll upload pics of that later. No pictures of the shrimp that was added, but, it was dissolved by the time I took this picture. Water got extremely cloudy and had a nasty ammonia spike as expected. Ammonia is declining right now...

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Got some good advice and added Seachem Matrix to my 2 large HOB filters. Thanks rdnelson99!!! Skimmer will be added once I start adding fish (possibly sooner, depending on how the cycling goes)...

Ordered 1 Gallon of the stuff. Leftover Matrix added to empty HOB filter on DT that was only added previously to ensure the skim on the top of the water was pushed over to the skimmer.
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Rinsed in RO/DI water (had some floaters). I really enjoy having my own RO/DI in-house!!!
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Matrix in HOB filter. Did Not reduce flow of water at all. If you look closely in previous pictures of QT, you can see my two small powerheads on each side towards the bottom of the tank. I'm going bare-bottom to monitor waste... (That didn't sound right...)
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Well, that's it for now. Thanks all!!!
 
Had a couple of typos in that previous post...

Waste water from RO/DI sometimes used to wash clothes that I use to work on my cars and cut grass... (Probably some more typos, but, It's late, and I can't read or type straigt at this hour.)

Here is a clearer pic of my QT. The previous one was distorted for some reason...

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