Cucowlr?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[cedzaquaddiction]

Alright everyone. Time to endure another update. I've been busy breaking down my DT and cycling my QT.

First off, to break down my DT, and my sympathy to anybody that has ever had to do this...

First to remove all of the LR...
You'd be surprised how much volume the LR takes up in your tank. This is where my water level was after removing all LR.

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LR moved to plastic tubs with some of the water from the DT along with a powerhead for circulation...

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Poor inhabitants looking for their hiding spots in the LR.
Engineer Goby

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I managed to locate all fish with the exception of two firefish. Do you know what that means? That means they are one of the two tubs filled with 90 pounds of LR in each of them. :mad2: :doh: :boo:
I had to move each piece of LR, shine a flashlight into each and every hole and crevice and move them to a separate tub one by one. Guess what... One firefish jumped out of the tub voluntarily and was near death by the time I found out. I threw him into a bucket with water from the DT, an air stone, and small powerhead to re-hydrate and oxygenate him. Unfortunately he didn't make it. The last firefish was in the last tub after the last piece of rock was moved. :mad2:
Allot of work for one fish, but, I'd do it all over again to save 1 fish. So far, I've only lost one fish in the transfer from QT to DT.

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[cedzaquaddiction]

Now for the QT....

It has finally cycled, and the fish are moved over to it. I managed to score two anthias, and they are in the QT as well along with 1 engineer goby, 2 firefish, and 2 unknown gobies...

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After the QT was up and going, I re-scaped my LR in the DT for something more functional while it sits fallow. I am running with about 110 pounds instead of the original 180 pounds. The leftover rock will sit in the tubs with heaters, powerheads and waterchanges to keep them ready to place in the
QT for a mantis tank once all fish are moved over to the DT after the fallow period which will be around New Years. Please provide some input on my new scaping. I moved the koralia powerheads lower in the tank to blow behind the LR, and added a 1650 gph powerhead up-top. Was thinking about adding one more 1650 powerhead up-top on the opposite side. Will that be too much flow? What do you all think?

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Again, thanks to all for your input, and if I am leaving something out, or you have any advice, please feel free to chime in...

Thanks all!!!

 

[rdnelson]

Rocks scape looks great. I think yo are going to like it when they all get coverred in purple coraline.

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Thanks Man!!! I really felt like I was limited with what I could do with 180 pounds of LR in the tank. There was really no way to scape it and have some surface space on the substrate. We'll see how it goes with the 110 pounds instead. I am already happy with the increase in substrate surface space and swimming area as well. I don't think the bio-load will be affected too much from the -60 pounds of rock, but we'll see. I believe the fish will appreciate the extra room...

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Alright everybody. Thanks for being patient and working with me thus far...

Got a question for you all... I have finally collected all fish that I wanted to move to my 120g DT. They are all currently living in my 55g QT. My swallowtail has come down with ich (begging to be cleaned by my cleaner goby and shrimp and white spots showed up a couple of days ago (bad luck with swallowtails http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75736">http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75736</a>)).
Should I remove my cleaner shrimp and go ahead and treat all fish in my that currently reside in my QT? I have 1 month left before my DT finishes it's fallow period.

Also: Just added my bluejaw trigger today. Is it too early to treat the tank with him in it or should I give him some time to get acclimated?

Setting up a separate tank just to treat the swallowtail is not an option right now, as I am currently running 3 tanks and things are getting a little out of control.

Thanks all!!!

 

[ripped tide]

What do you plan on treating with? I would start sooner than later.

Do you go to the doctor when you are starting to get sick, or when you have the flu. Of course..... If it is the flu, not much can be done.

In your case: copper can fix this. Expect a weakened immune system from using meds...

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

What are your views on Coppersafe? That is what I was planning on using. I've already removed my filter media and a couple of hermits and a cleaner shrimp in preparation...

I have 2 firefish, 1 bluejaw trigger, 1 swallowtail angel, 1 engineer goby, 2 anthias, 2 small clowns, and 2 small unknown ugly hawkfish. Any issues with treating any of these fish with copper?

Thanks so much!!!

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Well, I did 1/2 dose of coppersafe on all fish last night. Will do the other half tonight. The plan is 50% waterchanges weekly since I am not running any filtration.

A little nervous treating all fish at the same time as I don't know how they will react to the treatment, but this was my plan all along if one fish is infected, then all fish in that environment may be. Also easier to treat in QT than in DT w LR & future coral, right?

Thanks all!!!

 

[ripped tide]

Coppersafe is a fine product. Follow the directions, and keep an eye on the fishes health.

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Thanks Man... I've gone ahead and added some filter floss to the HOB's just to get the leftover food particles out of the water column and clear up the water some. This shouldn't remove any of the copper, right?

All: 1 day into the treatment and all fish are doing fine except the swallowtail. One of his eyes have greyed over. Anybody know what this means?

Thanks all!!!

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Anybody???

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Ok, everybody... BIG MISTAKE!!! My QT has been going great, and I had sworn off tangs. I now have 2 bluethroat triggers, 2 maroon clowns, 2 firefish, and one anthias in my 55g QT being treated with coppersafe. All has been well for 2 weeks as all fish are around 2 inches big. My DT will be done with it's 10 week fallow period in 2 weeks and all fish were to be moved over 4 weeks from now (2 fish at a time every 2 weeks).

I've been watching a yellow eye kole tang at another LFS for 2 weeks now. Eating well, and all. I figure, now would be a good time as she will be treated with coppersafe for 1 month and if there are any signs of ich or any disease, I'd have time to treat it. Well, I brought her home after much more research on ich and tangs.

Into the QT she goes after a healthy acclimation. All was well yesterday with no signs of aggression, and she immediately starts grazing on the nori i had strapped to a rock.
I turn on the lights tonight to see how she is going, and she is covered with white spots!!! WTH!!! I don't want to stress her more, but, I can't risk my other healthy livestock, so off she goes to my mantis tank for now.

My question is, with the short time of exposure, is it possible that the rest of my livestock have been infected? there is still coppersafe in the existing QT water.

Thanks all!!!

I should've absolutely left tangs alone!!! ****ed beautiful dirty fish!!!

Edit: Guess I should've set up a QT for my QT.

What should I do now? Water Changes, patience, just plain confused, and don't want to mess up my DT again by not doing the right thing...

Thanks all!!!

 

[rdnelson]

As you know, I am no expert. I suspect that if you are treating the other fish they will do fine but the kole needs to be treated as well. I most likely would have left it in the QT with the others. I suspect that both tanks have ich present now.

But it is not the end of the world (pun not entirely intended). You can beat this.

In the future I would say you would do better by not adding any new fish to a QT until the other fish are moved to the display.

Last, I would say that just because tangs are prone to ich it shouldn't stop you from having some. Be prepared and mave metro and focus on hand. At the first sign if ich on Amy fish start feeding it several times a day. This will not rid them entirely of the ich but aid the immune system which helps the fish fight it off. Think of a healthy person with a strong immune system who gets a cold. No big deal. On the other hand, an aids patient who gets a cold has little or no immune system and it can be fatal.

All three of my tangs have survived ich and therefore have a better chance of beating it WHEN it comes back.

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Thanks Man. I knew you'd chime in...

It was only 30 minutes ago that I moved her to my mantis tank, and I'm not really worried about that tank getting ich as it only has a mantis and 2 chromis in it. Should I move her back and let the treatment go on, or let her ride it out in the mantis tank until all other inhabitants have been moved to the DT? I really want some tang, but, still scared of the diseases...

Edit: "I really want some tang, but, still scared of the diseases..." Awww, Man!!! Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-Z!!! That didn't come out right. I really want some tangs (or tang fishes)... LOL!!!

Should I accept ich as a part of life with certain fish?

 

[rdnelson]

We all want a perfect tank but not many of us will ever achieve it. So do we say "if it isn't perfect I don't want it"? That would be your call. For me, I can live with some imperfections. So, yes, accepting that you will battle it now and again is healthy if you want to continue.

As for the kole??? I am not sure. You could put it back and treat all fish together or you could try the metro/focus option on the kole and see how it does. Either way you need to reset the clock on the fish in QT in my opinion.

Those are just my thoughts without tons of experience. I hope some of the old timers jump in and confirm what I have said or point out where I am wrong. But for sure, I would not make any more changes tonight. Give others a chance to chime in tomorrow and see what sounds right.

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Understood... I've heard you mention the metro/focus twice now, and I'm listening... I actually have some on hand, and will set up a tank to treat her. I'm actually working at a LFS tomorrow in my spare time (will work for fish), and I'll set up a separate QT tank there to treat her. If she is here, she'll be too much temptation.

I'm an engineer by trade, so I'm used to a different type of science that doesn't involve nature or personalities. This fish thing is somewhat of a change for me as I'm used to following a set of rules, calculations, and guidelines and expecting a certain result. I'm learning...

I agree with your guidance on resetting the clock on my QT tank. I was aiming at a month (which turned into 6 weeks) to begin with. Is a month enough if all fish (excluding Kole tang) appear to be healthy?

Thanks again...

 

[rdnelson]

I have never used copper based treatments so I don't know how it addresses the eggs. The six weeks is because it takes four weeks for the eggs to incubate. So if the ich found a host on those fish and it takes a few days to kill it, the parasite may have laid eggs before it died out. So four weeks latter new parasites hatch and it is back. If you are still treating you kill the new parasites before they can lay again.

Keep in mind that if the kole gets moved it will add some stress weakening its immune system further. In addition, if it is at the LFS someone needs to feed it three or four times a day with food that has metro and focus mixed in.

Mix a bunch of food,metro, focus and garlic (like Garlic Gard) and referee it. Each feeding thaw only enough to be consumed in 4 or 5 minutes. Don't thaw it in water though. You want all the mess to stay in the food right up until it hits the tank water.

Garlic makes the fish want to eat more, focus makes the metro taste better and metro is the med.

 

[rdnelson]

Not sure what kind of engineer you are but there isn't a ton of sufferance. When you solve an engineering problem you use fixed data to compile the solution. But, you also account for variables that may come up correct? This is the same thing. Identify and account for ALL variables you can imagine and you will find success.

 

[rdnelson]

Dang auto correct. LOL

 

[cedzaquaddiction]

Got it. Or I think I do... Gotta sink in a little...

Thinking..... The LFS is closer to work than home, so I may be able to stop by on my way to work, lunch, and on the way home to do the treatment myself. Also, at home, I only see my fish early morning, and at night... But, the LFS has many customers, and many more variables as they have an ever changing ambient environment... Gotta sleep on this one...

BTW: I like the way you put things. It makes me think... I'm a mechanical and electronic engineer by degree, but, a computer systems engineer for the Air Force by trade... Same principle, different components (I think...) Variables include density or composite of material (mechanical), or environment/security impacts (computer) of the location of which they will be deployed. What do these have in common? Environment: whether they are the environment of where the materials are made or the environment in which they are used. This means so much when it comes to the fish hobby. How the fish are collected and their ending environment can make all of the difference in success rate from fish to fish. This as well as the fish's make-up to begin with. Fixed data is only as good as the aforementioned variables...

I love/hate this hobby!!! LOL...

Thanks again, Man...