I think my yellow tang may have ick help!

[xyzpdq0121]

First off, you know me better then anyone to think that I would take offence to something you say.

No you are correct, I have never had Ich in the 40 gal. I treated the fish that were ill before they reached the tank and the treatment was a very good success. The fish treated were very badly infested and posed an interesting case study for treatment before being introduced into a parasite free tank.

I also think you are right about the 55gal. I think the level of the outbreak that was present before I removed the fish was bad enough that a longer then 6 week fallow period was needed. I too think the fish were clean when reintroduced into the tank but the parasite was still present. Since then, I have dedicated that tank to trying to treat the Ich inside a running system with a combo of meds and natural methods. I have managed to control the outbreaks but not erradicate it from the tank. I made the choice not to pull the fish back out and QT in lieu of studying what could work inside the tank. I still feel that a long enough fallow period will prove successful but that is little more then a belief at this time. I also believe that if the parasite is treated in the early stages, that the fallow period should in theory be less. Who knows though, I could be wrong. I still contest that pretreatment is the best measure to not transmitting the parasite.

At any rate, I have yet to be brave enough to test Quinine based drugs in a full reef tank. Or at least not in my full reef with the diversity of life I have in there. I am hoping I can find a case study and a willing owner to let me run a few tests. Any takers?!? I did not think so. I still want to try some of the other theories that you and I thought about Cam.

 

[patrick214]

FWIW, I have battled ick to seemingly no end. I have a regal tang and a powder blue tang who seemed to catch it if you looked at them the wrong way. I decided not to QT any of them as I simply didnt think I could support all my fish in a smaller tank. I soaked all my foods in zoe, zoecon, and beta glucan. These can help restore immune response to parasites and secondary infection. Also i think keeping a very stable temperature is critical. I believe dormant ick cysts can be awakened by large temp swings. I wouldnt use the metro and focus unless you have reason to suspect bacterial infection or internal parasites. Also, Anthony calfo suggests that daily water changes from the bottom of the aquarium for 10-14 days can somtimes interupt the life cycle. I tried this method for 14 days and was very happy with the results. I havent seen a speck of ick on my hippo or pbt since. That was prob a month and a half ago and before this time they had always had a speck or two on them. If you arent going to QT than, quality vitamin soaked food, cleaner shrimps, stable temps, daily WC's, and UV would all certainly go a long way.

 

[ronnieblaze]

Im going to get some cleaners today or tomarrow.. my tank temps stay in the range of 77 to 78.. what kinda of vitamins are you talking about using? im going to get some Formula 1 pellet food

 

[maddog]

I had a Hippo that was almost white with ick. I fed him a garlic and ginger mixture for about a week. After that he was as good as new. Never had a problem since.

 

[purplegorilla]

Patrick214;122850 wrote: FWIW, I have battled ick to seemingly no end. I have a regal tang and a powder blue tang who seemed to catch it if you looked at them the wrong way. I decided not to QT any of them as I simply didnt think I could support all my fish in a smaller tank. I soaked all my foods in zoe, zoecon, and beta glucan. These can help restore immune response to parasites and secondary infection. Also i think keeping a very stable temperature is critical. I believe dormant ick cysts can be awakened by large temp swings. I wouldnt use the metro and focus unless you have reason to suspect bacterial infection or internal parasites. Also, Anthony calfo suggests that daily water changes from the bottom of the aquarium for 10-14 days can somtimes interupt the life cycle. I tried this method for 14 days and was very happy with the results. I havent seen a speck of ick on my hippo or pbt since. That was prob a month and a half ago and before this time they had always had a speck or two on them. If you arent going to QT than, quality vitamin soaked food, cleaner shrimps, stable temps, daily WC's, and UV would all certainly go a long way.

You are describing exactly what is going on in my tank. I have a Powder blue and Regal tang that is constantly battling Ick. I did my research and realized certain tangs have lesser mucous layer protecting their body thus making them more receptable in catching ICK.

I have tried water change, quaranteen, garlic, UV light, fresh water dip, Ozone, etc...At last I came to accept ICK is just part of life. Its like a cold, when the fish are stressed they tend to get ICK easily. This is confirmed especially when I add a new fish. Also a crowded tank will also cause stress upon the existing fish. So the only thing I can suggest to you is to feed them high quality food containing high protein to keep them healthy, and regular water change.

My Regal had it really bad to the point where it covers its eye. It is now healthy and eats like a pig. My Powder Blue, well thats another story. I think his middle name is ICKY.

 

[cameron]

Xyzpdq0121;122847 wrote: I also think you are right about the 55gal. I think the level of the outbreak that was present before I removed the fish was bad enough that a longer then 6 week fallow period was needed. I too think the fish were clean when reintroduced into the tank but the parasite was still present. Since then, I have dedicated that tank to trying to treat the Ich inside a running system with a combo of meds and natural methods. I have managed to control the outbreaks but not erradicate it from the tank. I made the choice not to pull the fish back out and QT in lieu of studying what could work inside the tank. I still feel that a long enough fallow period will prove successful but that is little more then a belief at this time. I also believe that if the parasite is treated in the early stages, that the fallow period should in theory be less. Who knows though, I could be wrong. I still contest that pretreatment is the best measure to not transmitting the parasite.

Three things here... first I think my point more or less stands that removing a fish for QT barring some drastic QT changes probably won't rid you of the problem and you will likely be going through the hassle for little result. You did about as much QT on this as anyone I know and it still didn't work. I thought for sure you were going to beat it back with that month and a half QT/running the tank empty with the heat up, but when it didn't happen I realized the cure probably is worse than the disease.

Second, dipping and such really doesn't work as ick lives inside the fishes protective coating and pesonally I think most medications are dubious at best.

So again I am going to go state that the natural method of control is better than stressing the fish out with dips, QTs and such. I think the old thinking that we can cure everything in most cases is a lot of wasted time. Skunk cleaners do a good job keeping this stuff in check and healthy fish do an even better job. I am pretty unconvinced that UV even run REAL slow does a lot so I have a hard time recommending them as well.

I think if you stick to keeping the fish fed well, water changes regularly and put in some natural controls such as skunk cleaners you will see the problem managed... not cured likely but managed. The good news is my way is pretty cheap and low maintenance.

 

[cameron]

Raising the temp is dangerous IMO. Get the ick under control before you do this. It is pretty much accepted that higher temps speed up this creatures life cycle but also their reproduction rate. You could very easily infest a fish more by cranking up the temp. Also, fish tend to like cooler waters and there is more oxygen in those cooler waters. Corals I don't think like it as much but I suggest maintaining a temp when you have an infestation. You could make an arguement for cooling the water, but I think stability is the key to health of most livestock.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

bonniesherrie;122906 wrote:

The Bio-digest and Bio-Tim (Prodibio) from what I have read are supposed to eventually clear tanks of this bacteria.

Do you have links to what you have been reading? Prodibio products should have no effect on Ich. Ich is not a bacteria, it is a parasite.

 

[cameron]

Gotta go with Don here on this one... I dont' think Prodibio will have any effect.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Cameron;122909 wrote: Three things here... first I think my point more or less stands that removing a fish for QT barring some drastic QT changes probably won't rid you of the problem and you will likely be going through the hassle for little result. You did about as much QT on this as anyone I know and it still didn't work. I thought for sure you were going to beat it back with that month and a half QT/running the tank empty with the heat up, but when it didn't happen I realized the cure probably is worse than the disease.

Second, dipping and such really doesn't work as ick lives inside the fishes protective coating and pesonally I think most medications are dubious at best.

So again I am going to go state that the natural method of control is better than stressing the fish out with dips, QTs and such. I think the old thinking that we can cure everything in most cases is a lot of wasted time. Skunk cleaners do a good job keeping this stuff in check and healthy fish do an even better job. I am pretty unconvinced that UV even run REAL slow does a lot so I have a hard time recommending them as well.

I think if you stick to keeping the fish fed well, water changes regularly and put in some natural controls such as skunk cleaners you will see the problem managed... not cured likely but managed. The good news is my way is pretty cheap and low maintenance.

Alright there Panda... :roll:

I do not know, I will be the first to admit that I am still working on a solution and when I find it, I will bottle it up and I will be rich. A month and a half fallow should have been enough and it wasn't so what can be concluded? Either a) Ich needs longer then a month and a half to clear from a tank in all cases b) depending on the level of infection a month might work but long might be needed or c) it is a lost cause and you need to learn to live with it. I have no clue what is correct. I have often thought about trying it again but this time running fallow for three months, problem witht hat is Jenn would kill me. The record stands for itself, the 10 tanks I have helped treat 4 have had Ich return within 6 months (Victors, yours, a guy name Tim in colorado and mine). So I am about 60% success rate and maybe more then that because I can not be sure in the 40% that they did not introduce it back into the tank some how. But I still have hope and maybe it is nieve, but I have hope that this thing can be beat.

Now dipping, I have to disagree with your thoughts. A medicated dip has proven to do wonders for the fish. Formalin has become one of my new best friends. I have not lost a fish yet to a formalin dip and I have noticed a 100% success rate with it for removing parasites thus far. It is my new best thing since sliced bread treatment and I will be using it on any incoming fish in QT that shows signs of infection.

I agree, I do not think UV and Ozone does crap for Ich. Algae? Sure! Water clearity? You bet! Ich, not a chance! You would have to run your total system water volume through the UV, a 100% removal with no contamination PLUS have 100% kill rate from the UV. Not going to happen in the real world. Save your money and spend it elsewhere.

 

[cameron]

Xyzpdq0121;122933 wrote: So I am about 60% success rate and maybe more then that because I can not be sure in the 40% that they did not introduce it back into the tank some how. But I still have hope and maybe it is nieve, but I have hope that this thing can be beat.

I am willing to bet that some of those tanks still have ick and eagle eyes over at your place just hasn't had a good enough look at those fish. Small outbreaks can be very hard to catch.

Xyzpdq0121;122933 wrote: Now dipping, I have to disagree with your thoughts. A medicated dip has proven to do wonders for the fish. Formalin has become one of my new best friends. I have not lost a fish yet to a formalin dip and I have noticed a 100% success rate with it for removing parasites thus far. It is my new best thing since sliced bread treatment and I will be using it on any incoming fish in QT that shows signs of infection.

Knowing the long term toxic effects of formaldehyde on humans (and most other organisms) I believe (again not fact opinion) that this stuff has a detrimental effect on pretty much any living organism. I am unconvinced these dips don't have a long term effect on the fish being dipped much like cyanide. Is the cure better than the disease maybe, but I think if you can beat a disease using natural methods it is better than wacking yourself with formaldehyde. Maybe if your tank doesn't already have ick in it may be worth risking some of the life of the fish, but once you got ick in a tank I don't think the dips are going to do much if anything positivie in a long term sense.

Xyzpdq0121;122933 wrote: I agree, I do not think UV and Ozone does crap for Ich. Algae? Sure! Water clearity? You bet! Ich, not a chance! You would have to run your total system water volume through the UV, a 100% removal with no contamination PLUS have 100% kill rate from the UV. Not going to happen in the real world. Save your money and spend it elsewhere.

I think if you run it slow it does kill some of the free floating organisms so it probably does help some, but I don't think it helps enough to justify the price (if you are only running it for ick control) and I certainly don't think it will cure a tank.

 

[cmjazz89]

I had a bout with ich a couple of months ago when I added a sailfin, yellow, and blue tangs to my 125g. They were covered, I realized that chances were that they were just stress and the only thing I did was mix alittle dice garlic to their red algea sheets. They ate like crazy and I repeated this for a week. Two days into it, all had the ich disappear and I just continue it for good measure. Now they are all fat & happy and can wait till I get home to feed them. Almost like a dog waiting at the door for its master.

I'm a true believer that dosing for ich is not a good idea. You run a chance of introducing something else into the equation that you cannot account for. Use garlic to entice them to eat. As long as they are eating (especailly alot) they will naturally get over it.

A fat fish is usually a happy fish.

 

[patrick214]

I tend to agree with cameron on this one. I think the further stress caused by moving an animal with ick out of its home can be enough to kill it. Also there is no guarantee the ick is actually killed. Even really long fallow periods can be unsuccesful. I feel like had i moved my powder blue he would have died. If the animal is eating, than vitamins such as zoe zoecon and beta glucan will help if he is not than garlic may entice him. Also, I really think the daily water changes from the bottom of the aquarium works well. It may not eliminate the pest but i think it decreases the virulence so much that the fish is able to fight off the much lesser amount of swarmers throwing a kink in its cycle. And without introducing additional strains, the ick will only last 11 life cycles I believe. So the longer you can keep it at bay the better!

PurpleGorilla, I know how you feel. I think the key with these two fish, especially the PBT, is stability. Changes in any major paramater seem to set them off. Dont get to drastic, make sure his foods are chalk full of vitamins. Try beta-glucan that stuff works wonders. Also if you have the time try the daily WC's i bet you would be pleasantly surprised

 

[cameron]

I thought this was going to be another full-o-???? article until I hit the last part:

In actual fact cysts of Cryptocaryon can stay viable for a few to several months, hence ultraviolet sterilization, use of biological cleaners, allowing systems to go fallow... only decreases the number and virulence of these parasites. Once in a system, the system itself is infested and the only practical means of control becomes providing an optimized and stable environment.

Well good to see some "expert" out there pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject.

 

[cameron]

Freshwater ick can kiss my rear. It is easy to deal with by comparison to a reef system. Ick could managed quite easily if I weren't worried about taking down my live rock and cycling my tank all over again.

 

[ronnieblaze]

ive been feeding him frozen brine any myisis shrimp since i got him... and last week i bought some live brine to feed... and im pretty sure after i fed them is when i started to noticed the spots starting to form... like ive been saying he eats all day long.. and ive been keeping seaweed in there for him to eat pretty much all day long...

im going to stop today and pick up some Formula1 pellet food.. anyone reccomend other food or vitamins i can get while im out today for him?

 

[dannybradley]

The one time I had it in my 75 reef was on a rescue of a hippo tang. I put it in and she was nailed with it in the days. I added two cleaner shrimp and it was an off and on case for 2 weeks and she eventually got over it. She's still kicking it in one of my client's tanks about 3 times the size she was when I got her.

 

[poritescaribe]

:fish: use feeding garlic stop ick is true

 

[ronnieblaze]

well im picking up 2 cleaners tomarrow from tim... and im going to do a big WC this weekend and im just gonna have to sit back ant see what happens...

 

[oz]

Tim will be getting a visit from me for a few cleaners today around noon as well.