Ich and treatment in our tanks! You too can be Ich free!
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Absolutely excellent. Great effort.
For those of you out there who don't know Brandon, let me just say that he is a complete fish killer.......ok.....just kidding.
Brandon helped me tremendously with my ick problem and out of my six fish only one died using the above methods and that fish was pretty much dead before I even put him in the dip....It had pretty much gotten to his gills and that was that.
Having never done this, it was pretty scary to do this to the fish, but you would be really surprised at what they can take....It was amazing to see the ick just fall off the fish....
Now they are in the hyposalinity part of the treatment so we'll see how that goes but so far so good.
Again, Thanks brandon for all your help and lending me the supplies I needed and everything. Oh yeah, and for taking every single one of my 162 phone calls!
Brandon helped me tremendously with my ick problem and out of my six fish only one died using the above methods and that fish was pretty much dead before I even put him in the dip....It had pretty much gotten to his gills and that was that.
Having never done this, it was pretty scary to do this to the fish, but you would be really surprised at what they can take....It was amazing to see the ick just fall off the fish....
Now they are in the hyposalinity part of the treatment so we'll see how that goes but so far so good.
Again, Thanks brandon for all your help and lending me the supplies I needed and everything. Oh yeah, and for taking every single one of my 162 phone calls!
Well major rep points. Just brilliant stuff. As they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pund of cure. my qt procedure is almost the exact one you mention (plus some deworming but that's off subject) Again nice job and thanks for putting all that effort into something so important!
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I think I caught ick because I was so worn out reading all this!!! J/K!
Great write up! I wish I had read something like this before I introduced ick into my tank from some fish that I bought from a guy off craigslist last year. Lessons learned.....no more ick! Thanks for the info!!!
Great write up! I wish I had read something like this before I introduced ick into my tank from some fish that I bought from a guy off craigslist last year. Lessons learned.....no more ick! Thanks for the info!!!
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Well done Brandon. I have only a couple words of caution. I strongly oppose prophylactical treatment of fish. By all means, sick fish need care, but I do not subscribe to the principle that fish should be treated- no questions asked.
Much of this information has come from well reknowned authors and "experts" in this field. I suggest everyone please be careful in trying to mimic the steps listed. Many of the steps posted can be quite beneficial, provided done correctly. However, if done incorrectly (perhaps by someone not as familiar with the chemicals, procedures, or outward behavioral signs of fish stress), the treatments can be nmore lethal than the disease. I would suggest that anyone wishing to try the treatments mentioned by Brandon be very familiar with it before attempting. Furthermore, I take all refernces with a big handful of salt. There is so much information, misinformation, outdated information, and outright incorrect heresay out there, I have trouble believing such things without locating several indirect sources. For example, Dr. Ronald Shimek is a well known author, but has made some outright ridiculous, contradictory, and flagrantry untrue statemnts about clams many years ago. as it turns out, he was likely "influenced" ($$$) by a company that sold a product he had just endorsed. Shady and misleading. I am not saying any of the references Brnadon posted are anything along these lines, but in my experience, authors, particularly in this field, take liberties and make claims before they are proven to be true, so that they can pump their egos and make a name.
At any rate, I certainly applaud the effort and information Brandon has put forth, it will surely help many.
Much of this information has come from well reknowned authors and "experts" in this field. I suggest everyone please be careful in trying to mimic the steps listed. Many of the steps posted can be quite beneficial, provided done correctly. However, if done incorrectly (perhaps by someone not as familiar with the chemicals, procedures, or outward behavioral signs of fish stress), the treatments can be nmore lethal than the disease. I would suggest that anyone wishing to try the treatments mentioned by Brandon be very familiar with it before attempting. Furthermore, I take all refernces with a big handful of salt. There is so much information, misinformation, outdated information, and outright incorrect heresay out there, I have trouble believing such things without locating several indirect sources. For example, Dr. Ronald Shimek is a well known author, but has made some outright ridiculous, contradictory, and flagrantry untrue statemnts about clams many years ago. as it turns out, he was likely "influenced" ($$$) by a company that sold a product he had just endorsed. Shady and misleading. I am not saying any of the references Brnadon posted are anything along these lines, but in my experience, authors, particularly in this field, take liberties and make claims before they are proven to be true, so that they can pump their egos and make a name.
At any rate, I certainly applaud the effort and information Brandon has put forth, it will surely help many.
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Jmaney:
The only treatment that I recommend is a FW dip and Hyposalinity. Copper and Formilan are too dangerious for the "untrained" reefer to utilize, you are right. MOst other things just do not work! I fail to see how hyposalinity is dangerous and (as long as they dip is PH balanced) a dip is pretty safe as well.
Can I ask why you oppose prophylactical treatment of fish? I do not agree with giving copper to fish that show no signs of an illness but I also think that assuming that the fish is fine if you do not see a problem right away is careless. a QT and FW dip of fish causes no harm to the fish and may prevent the need for harsher treatments down the road. Win/Win in my book.
The methods discribed above are utilized by most every major public aquarium in the world. (Think it is hard to catch a royal in your tank, try the reef wall at the GA Aquarium!)
The treatment section (written by Steven Pro) outlines the different options that are available to the reefer. Pros and Cons of each. There is one true winner as a safe form of treatment but the others were provided to be as detailed as could be.
The only treatment that I recommend is a FW dip and Hyposalinity. Copper and Formilan are too dangerious for the "untrained" reefer to utilize, you are right. MOst other things just do not work! I fail to see how hyposalinity is dangerous and (as long as they dip is PH balanced) a dip is pretty safe as well.
Can I ask why you oppose prophylactical treatment of fish? I do not agree with giving copper to fish that show no signs of an illness but I also think that assuming that the fish is fine if you do not see a problem right away is careless. a QT and FW dip of fish causes no harm to the fish and may prevent the need for harsher treatments down the road. Win/Win in my book.
The methods discribed above are utilized by most every major public aquarium in the world. (Think it is hard to catch a royal in your tank, try the reef wall at the GA Aquarium!)
The treatment section (written by Steven Pro) outlines the different options that are available to the reefer. Pros and Cons of each. There is one true winner as a safe form of treatment but the others were provided to be as detailed as could be.
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Hey Brandon, please do not take the follow as an attack, because it is not- I am only trying to show my viewpoint.
Does hyposalinity negatively effect an organism that lives in a comparatively hypersaline environment? You better believe it does. The whole premise of hyposalinity is that the change in osmotic properties is deleterious to a greater extent in a smaller organism than to a larger. We walk that line with our hyposaline treatment. But it still is deleterious to the larger. To whatever degree. Otherwise, we'd have clownfish in freshwater tanks. So, to what degree does the hyposalinity harm a fish? I really have no idea. But honestly, nobody has any idea. Does it stress them physically, mentally, or otherwise? I would argue, yes. Does is damage potentially microflora and microfauna that are internal in fish? Possibly. Does it damage the cpillary cells used for respiration, lateral line detection, or other? Who knows. BUT, does it have the potential to do so? ABsolutely! So, why put a outwardly healthy appearing fish under such stress? Because is may or may not have a parasite? To me, that is unecessary and trivial. Freshwater dips are also a tightrope walk, that we do (with quite a bit of educated predictive success). But does it have deleterious effects on fish? I firmly believe so.
Now, that being said, I think these treatments have their place. Hyposlaine treatments are far easier on the fish systems than other chemicals, in my opinion. So, should one prove to be effective to treat pathogen X, I would do it. But, my point is that even this relatively mild treatment does have some degree of negative impact on a fish, and such negative impact is something I wont apply to my animals unless the diagnosis merits it.
Let me ask, why do you oppose copper as preventative treatment, but not hypo? Copper done properly can be just as safe as hypo done properly (with certain specific species), so where do we draw the line?
Funny that you should bring up major aquariums. Before I put my whole leg in my mouth, let me pre-curse my statement with this- I work at a animal insitution, and I know what is involved in maintaining large, mixed species exhibits. I, <u>in no way,</u></em> am criticizing the techniques of such organiziations. Now, I challenge anyone here to go to any major aquarium and see if they can spot a totally healthy population of fish. It cant be done. Invariably, you will see a fish here or there that has HLLE, or nutritional deficiencies, or parasites, or whatever. This is because the exhibit as a whole cannot specialize to each and every individual fish within. This is the "curse" public aquariums live under. How do they deal with it? They prioritize and "triage" their needs. Freshwater dips and hyposalinity as preventative outweighs the potential stresses of such fish, because they serve the better purpose on the long run. But this I cannot stress enough- <u>WE CANNOT TREAT OUR TANKS LIKE AQUARIUMS TREAT THEIR TANKS!!!</u></em> They are totally different breeds. With different animals, and differnt tools, and different problems. When the lion at the zoo gets sick, they treat it a certain way. Do you think the same techniques, drugs, methods apply to your housecat? They don't.
Again, please dont take my comments as attack, they are not. I agree and approve of the techniques you have outlined. I simply think we must use them in appropriate measures, not as "fix-alls".
Does hyposalinity negatively effect an organism that lives in a comparatively hypersaline environment? You better believe it does. The whole premise of hyposalinity is that the change in osmotic properties is deleterious to a greater extent in a smaller organism than to a larger. We walk that line with our hyposaline treatment. But it still is deleterious to the larger. To whatever degree. Otherwise, we'd have clownfish in freshwater tanks. So, to what degree does the hyposalinity harm a fish? I really have no idea. But honestly, nobody has any idea. Does it stress them physically, mentally, or otherwise? I would argue, yes. Does is damage potentially microflora and microfauna that are internal in fish? Possibly. Does it damage the cpillary cells used for respiration, lateral line detection, or other? Who knows. BUT, does it have the potential to do so? ABsolutely! So, why put a outwardly healthy appearing fish under such stress? Because is may or may not have a parasite? To me, that is unecessary and trivial. Freshwater dips are also a tightrope walk, that we do (with quite a bit of educated predictive success). But does it have deleterious effects on fish? I firmly believe so.
Now, that being said, I think these treatments have their place. Hyposlaine treatments are far easier on the fish systems than other chemicals, in my opinion. So, should one prove to be effective to treat pathogen X, I would do it. But, my point is that even this relatively mild treatment does have some degree of negative impact on a fish, and such negative impact is something I wont apply to my animals unless the diagnosis merits it.
Let me ask, why do you oppose copper as preventative treatment, but not hypo? Copper done properly can be just as safe as hypo done properly (with certain specific species), so where do we draw the line?
Funny that you should bring up major aquariums. Before I put my whole leg in my mouth, let me pre-curse my statement with this- I work at a animal insitution, and I know what is involved in maintaining large, mixed species exhibits. I, <u>in no way,</u></em> am criticizing the techniques of such organiziations. Now, I challenge anyone here to go to any major aquarium and see if they can spot a totally healthy population of fish. It cant be done. Invariably, you will see a fish here or there that has HLLE, or nutritional deficiencies, or parasites, or whatever. This is because the exhibit as a whole cannot specialize to each and every individual fish within. This is the "curse" public aquariums live under. How do they deal with it? They prioritize and "triage" their needs. Freshwater dips and hyposalinity as preventative outweighs the potential stresses of such fish, because they serve the better purpose on the long run. But this I cannot stress enough- <u>WE CANNOT TREAT OUR TANKS LIKE AQUARIUMS TREAT THEIR TANKS!!!</u></em> They are totally different breeds. With different animals, and differnt tools, and different problems. When the lion at the zoo gets sick, they treat it a certain way. Do you think the same techniques, drugs, methods apply to your housecat? They don't.
Again, please dont take my comments as attack, they are not. I agree and approve of the techniques you have outlined. I simply think we must use them in appropriate measures, not as "fix-alls".
First, an ick infestation is generally not seen until the parasite has blown up so a cautionary QT if you don't know where a specimine has come from is good sense otherwise you do risk infecting the entire tank. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Most people think ick is white, but that is only the parasite in its final stages of life.
Copper is actually toxic to most fish. Many fish that we keep in our tanks live in a hypo environment in the wild. A hypo environment isn't caustic to most marine fish unlike copper. Copper also bonds to protiens very easily and is very hard to get rid of. So even after you get the fish out of the copper, the copper is still running through the bloodstream as well as all over the fish. Improper balances of heavy metals are just bad for most living oragnisms.
If you are buying from a place with a n-day guarantee it just makes sense to QT them in a hypo environment. Aside from the parasite issue. If the fish dies from hypo, it was most likley a very weak fish. If the fish is healthy and doing well it will very likely have no trouble in a hypo environment, this is a fish that was likely properly captured and transported. You should always check and make sure your fish can do well in a hypo environment before using that process however. I realize that may be a harsher way of managing fish, but I don't want my latest $50 xyz killing off my $300+ set of livestock.
I think a FW dip isn't very useful. Most of the parasites that are truly dangerous (as in ones that are the hardest to rid after they infest a tank) exist under the mucus lining and a FW dip won't get those guys at all. Very generally speaking, it takes a couple weeks for most parasites (at least the ones we are trying to kill) to run there life cycle it also takes a few weeks for a fishes protective lining to "turnover" so you should probably look for a QT period of at least two weeks IMO.
Copper is actually toxic to most fish. Many fish that we keep in our tanks live in a hypo environment in the wild. A hypo environment isn't caustic to most marine fish unlike copper. Copper also bonds to protiens very easily and is very hard to get rid of. So even after you get the fish out of the copper, the copper is still running through the bloodstream as well as all over the fish. Improper balances of heavy metals are just bad for most living oragnisms.
If you are buying from a place with a n-day guarantee it just makes sense to QT them in a hypo environment. Aside from the parasite issue. If the fish dies from hypo, it was most likley a very weak fish. If the fish is healthy and doing well it will very likely have no trouble in a hypo environment, this is a fish that was likely properly captured and transported. You should always check and make sure your fish can do well in a hypo environment before using that process however. I realize that may be a harsher way of managing fish, but I don't want my latest $50 xyz killing off my $300+ set of livestock.
I think a FW dip isn't very useful. Most of the parasites that are truly dangerous (as in ones that are the hardest to rid after they infest a tank) exist under the mucus lining and a FW dip won't get those guys at all. Very generally speaking, it takes a couple weeks for most parasites (at least the ones we are trying to kill) to run there life cycle it also takes a few weeks for a fishes protective lining to "turnover" so you should probably look for a QT period of at least two weeks IMO.
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Hey Cameron, buddy- long time- no argue, huh!?:up: Yeah, you know I'm just messing with you. Anyway, belive it or not, I disagree with some of the things you said. First, I do agree- quarantine is smart, and anyone who skips it out of laziness is a fool's fool. So we are on the same page there. And you are right, copper is toxic to living things- not just fish. In high enough levels.
Now, how do fish from typical tropical coral reefs in the wild live in a hyposalinic environment? This I just dont get at all. How can it be hyposalinic to itself? These fish are not found in areas with s desnity of 1.015 or less (which is where I'm guessing people run their hypo). Most reefs are saltier than that, and probably even saltier than the tanks we keep. Red Sea fish, even higher than that. So how are these environments hyposalinic?
Now here is where I get all philosophical on you- In your third paragraph, you suggest hypo if you have a guarantee. To me, that sucks. I dont ever put money before the care of my animals. If there was no guarantee, would you still hypo? I feel really strongly that the ethics of this hobby should be to do everything possible to care for the animals we have decided to keep. Where do you draw the line? If you have a 30 day guranatee, and the fish isn't 100%, do you kill it to get your money back?
But along those lines, you are assuming that hypo does a healthy fish no harm. Why? Because you cant see spots, or missing scales, or other typical symptoms. I agrgue, it does cause some degree of harm, maybe not a huge amount, but some.
Just my opnion, no offense intended.
I don't want to derail the thread but there is very little evidence hypo of 1.010 negatively affects fish in anyway. There is a major discussion on this on the marine depot forums and there were simply no facts at all supporting that it does.
"But it still is deleterious to the larger. To whatever degree. Otherwise, we'd have clownfish in freshwater tanks"
No one is advocating 1.000 salinity here let's keep it reasonable.
"So, why put a outwardly healthy appearing fish under such stress? Because is may or may not have a parasite? To me, that is unecessary and trivial. Freshwater dips are also a tightrope walk, that we do (with quite a bit of educated predictive success). But does it have deleterious effects on fish? I firmly believe so."
Because if they have been through a wholesaler or retailer there is about a 100% chance they have at least been exposed to ICH. And most of the time diseases are not visable until they are in advanced stages so bein "outwardly healthy" is like declaring a human healthy only by appearance and not taking his blood pressure, cholesterol, checking for cancer, etc.
You believe they have deleterious effects, I don't. Neither of us can truly prove which is right. I just know that I've researched and talked to people who have handled hundreds of fish (as opposed to myself and any hobbyists relatively few) and they seem to largely biased on the side of freshwater dips/hypo not hurting anything.
Copper has 2 greater risks as I see it. 1) the dose has to be perfect, this is difficult to manage IMO. 2) Many fish are very sensitive to copper whereas very few are sensitive to hyposalintiy. Now that does not mean I'm a copper hater. It can be used successfully I just find it more difficult.
My point is there is no "right" answer on this. For me I'm willing to take whatever "unknown" risks there are with hypo then risk it getting through and taking out my Regal Angel or other fish that are truly very very dificult to find healthy specimens of.
I have had supurb results with it over the years and have only lost one fish in a FW dip (was in bad shap when I got him) and none in hypo. This is well over 40 fish over the years. I have only had 4 fish die on me ever! 2 carpet surfers, the FW dip mentioned above, and one I still don't know.
"But it still is deleterious to the larger. To whatever degree. Otherwise, we'd have clownfish in freshwater tanks"
No one is advocating 1.000 salinity here let's keep it reasonable.
"So, why put a outwardly healthy appearing fish under such stress? Because is may or may not have a parasite? To me, that is unecessary and trivial. Freshwater dips are also a tightrope walk, that we do (with quite a bit of educated predictive success). But does it have deleterious effects on fish? I firmly believe so."
Because if they have been through a wholesaler or retailer there is about a 100% chance they have at least been exposed to ICH. And most of the time diseases are not visable until they are in advanced stages so bein "outwardly healthy" is like declaring a human healthy only by appearance and not taking his blood pressure, cholesterol, checking for cancer, etc.
You believe they have deleterious effects, I don't. Neither of us can truly prove which is right. I just know that I've researched and talked to people who have handled hundreds of fish (as opposed to myself and any hobbyists relatively few) and they seem to largely biased on the side of freshwater dips/hypo not hurting anything.
Copper has 2 greater risks as I see it. 1) the dose has to be perfect, this is difficult to manage IMO. 2) Many fish are very sensitive to copper whereas very few are sensitive to hyposalintiy. Now that does not mean I'm a copper hater. It can be used successfully I just find it more difficult.
My point is there is no "right" answer on this. For me I'm willing to take whatever "unknown" risks there are with hypo then risk it getting through and taking out my Regal Angel or other fish that are truly very very dificult to find healthy specimens of.
I have had supurb results with it over the years and have only lost one fish in a FW dip (was in bad shap when I got him) and none in hypo. This is well over 40 fish over the years. I have only had 4 fish die on me ever! 2 carpet surfers, the FW dip mentioned above, and one I still don't know.
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I dont believe you understand my point with the hyposalinity discussion. If hypo has no deleterious effects, then why not a density of 1.010 or 1.009, or even 1.000? Because there is a deleterious effect. It is the physics of osmosis.
In re-reading my post in your reply, you are correct, my interpretation of "outwardly appearing healthy" did not present properly. Healthy appearance to me is far more that the gross appearance. To me, it includes behavior, respiration, consumption, socialbility, and so on. These are the best tools we have for determining our fishes health. If I keep a fish in a QWT tank for 3 weeks, and all of the above seems totally typical, why would I assume it has ick? It has gone through extreme stress in capture, transport, and relocation to my QT tank, so ick should show at least one outward visible symptom, right? Using your analogy, you consider every human you see ill, until you see their doctor's charts? We can speculate the ill from their symptomatic behaviors. Humans dont go in for their annual chemotheraphy.
Again, please let me make a big point- if you handle or go through hundreds or thousands of fish- the benefits may outweigh the negatives. But, again, we cant treat our systems and tanks like the retailers, aquariums, or wholesalers. They are different.
It sounds as if you are a well seasoned fish keeper- this is not in doubt. But, I think the issue you are not considering is- you only had 4 losses, but would you have had more if you didnt prophylactically dip every fish? No one can say. I have had fish loss in the past 5 years, but not to pathogens. And I dont run hypo unless necessary.
Yes at some point it's an issue but not at 1.009 or higher. Go ahead and test where that point is if you want. I have no desire. I just know it's somewhere south of 1.009.
Again we are not all exposed to things that would require chemo in our system. If it was contagious and we had had a huge chance of catching it we would have it you can bet.
We all take shots and get vaccinated for stuff we don't have! I'm done with this one. I'm sure you'll post more interesting ideas but I'm done as I think we talk all we want at this point and get nowhere.
Again we are not all exposed to things that would require chemo in our system. If it was contagious and we had had a huge chance of catching it we would have it you can bet.
We all take shots and get vaccinated for stuff we don't have! I'm done with this one. I'm sure you'll post more interesting ideas but I'm done as I think we talk all we want at this point and get nowhere.
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Ok guys... Lets keep this on point, please! 
I stated at the start that MY ideas of what has worked in MY experiences, and others as the case might be, would not be agreed upon by everyone. The point of this thread was to discuss what has worked in the past for me. It is my opinion and just that. After staying up till 4:00am last night writing this thread, I do not have the energy to discuss it, and for that I am sorry. IMHO, Hypo and FW Dips are safe and SHOULD be used with every fish. take it with a grain of salt if you wish.
Jmany, I did not think that you were attacking me. You have every right to voice your oppinion with this thread, weather it be in support of distaste of it. I respect your opinion.
It is hard writting a "guide" for the masses. No it does not work in every case but it works in most. I think it is best to try this method before utilizing copper or some other treatment. I do believe it is 99% safe and easy to use. The last set of fish that I did Hypo on were at 1.010 for 4 weeks. They are doing great and no ill effects. I have not seem anything on the other end to show me that it could. As for copper, want to talk about messing with a fishes systems. Look at what copper does to a Tangs digestive system!
As for Cameron over there, remind me not to dip your next set of fish! LOL J/K. I believe that a dip is very important. Yes some parasites will be burried into the skin and tissues. No a Dip does not remove ALL of the parasites or there would be no need for a QT, just dip and go on. But, maybe Jorge can atest to this, When you stick a fish covered with Ich into a FW Dip, ALOT of the cysts fall off. I believe this gives the fish instant relief and makes the whole process more comfortable for the fish. It may free up gill space to help him breath. It might end some of the suffering from itching. What the dip does not take care of the Hypo QT should!
Ok that is where I stand. Please keep it civil from here. I would like this thread to stick around for a while with out being closed if/when things get nasty!
I stated at the start that MY ideas of what has worked in MY experiences, and others as the case might be, would not be agreed upon by everyone. The point of this thread was to discuss what has worked in the past for me. It is my opinion and just that. After staying up till 4:00am last night writing this thread, I do not have the energy to discuss it, and for that I am sorry. IMHO, Hypo and FW Dips are safe and SHOULD be used with every fish. take it with a grain of salt if you wish.Jmany, I did not think that you were attacking me. You have every right to voice your oppinion with this thread, weather it be in support of distaste of it. I respect your opinion.
It is hard writting a "guide" for the masses. No it does not work in every case but it works in most. I think it is best to try this method before utilizing copper or some other treatment. I do believe it is 99% safe and easy to use. The last set of fish that I did Hypo on were at 1.010 for 4 weeks. They are doing great and no ill effects. I have not seem anything on the other end to show me that it could. As for copper, want to talk about messing with a fishes systems. Look at what copper does to a Tangs digestive system!
As for Cameron over there, remind me not to dip your next set of fish!
LOL J/K. I believe that a dip is very important. Yes some parasites will be burried into the skin and tissues. No a Dip does not remove ALL of the parasites or there would be no need for a QT, just dip and go on. But, maybe Jorge can atest to this, When you stick a fish covered with Ich into a FW Dip, ALOT of the cysts fall off. I believe this gives the fish instant relief and makes the whole process more comfortable for the fish. It may free up gill space to help him breath. It might end some of the suffering from itching. What the dip does not take care of the Hypo QT should!Ok that is where I stand. Please keep it civil from here. I would like this thread to stick around for a while with out being closed if/when things get nasty!
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Good Job Brandon!
Very informative and well put together. Should be a great guide to follow for all, new and experienced.
Major rep points!
:goodjob:
Very informative and well put together. Should be a great guide to follow for all, new and experienced.
Major rep points!
:goodjob:
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Man, I shouldn't post anymore. I hope everyone understands that I am just trying to state my viewpoint, not attack theirs.
It is only my personal opinion that hypo is stress on the fish, and as such, has deleterious effects. I have based such on my understanding of science and the details of aquarium husbandry. If you think I'm full of BS, so be it, it is entirely your right. I just take exception to people making claims on heresay without scientific fact, data, or backup to such. But to each, their own.
Brandon, you and I will simply agree to disagree on this topic, and we'll leave it at that. What exactly does copper do to a tangs digestive system? Where has this information come from? As far as I know, this, too, is all heresay. To my knowledge, no one has taken a bioassay of the gut flora and fauna of any fish. I have perosnally seen many many tangs that were treated with copper, and have done fine.
Overall, let me say this- I think hypo is a good treatment, and is definitely one of the safer ones. But as per my original statement, I dont feel any treatment should occur without just cause.
It is only my personal opinion that hypo is stress on the fish, and as such, has deleterious effects. I have based such on my understanding of science and the details of aquarium husbandry. If you think I'm full of BS, so be it, it is entirely your right. I just take exception to people making claims on heresay without scientific fact, data, or backup to such. But to each, their own.
Brandon, you and I will simply agree to disagree on this topic, and we'll leave it at that. What exactly does copper do to a tangs digestive system? Where has this information come from? As far as I know, this, too, is all heresay. To my knowledge, no one has taken a bioassay of the gut flora and fauna of any fish. I have perosnally seen many many tangs that were treated with copper, and have done fine.
Overall, let me say this- I think hypo is a good treatment, and is definitely one of the safer ones. But as per my original statement, I dont feel any treatment should occur without just cause.
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