Ich and treatment in our tanks! You too can be Ich free!

[cameron]

Most of his comments are in reference to ridding the parasite as a whole from an infested tank. His take seems to be that it is virtually impossible to get it out of the tank once it is in with hypo alone. I would argue he makes me want to make sure I do everything I can never to get it into my tank to begin with.

Fenner is an expert and I reference a lot of his material, but even he admits at best it "may be a bit more stressful" and there is "There certainly seems to be some merit to this process". I respect his expertise, but that same expertise allows him to better identify parasites and such. IMO, the average reefer does not have these skills.

Give a dog with heartworms a heartworm pill- you've got a dead dog. That's why they test before they give you the pills.

That is just wrong. If a dog tests positive, they actually give heartworm drugs for six months hoping to rid the parasite so they don't have to give the more harmful treatment. If the medication doesn't work, they begin a pretty nasty form of treatment. I am well versed on this subject from much personal experience. The heartworm medication they give has virtually no effect on adults and prevents the larvae from maturing into adults. You do treatment right up till a series or arsenic like injections, wait a month and start treatment on the heartworm medication again.

You get vacs always before there is a problem... afterwards it is too late. Hypo can and does fall into the same category. Hypo can be uses as a preventative treatment plain and simple. Just because hypo can be used after the fact doesn't negate the fact that like heartworm medication it can be used to irridicated parasites.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Jamny, you have PM... But I am luck to have Bob's personal E-mail and I have written him a note to see if he can correct himself. I like cameron, think that him intention is a full blown infestation. Most of the e-mail that he recieves at WWM are "I let this thing go on to the point that my fish are all but dead..." At that point, I know that he recommends copper as a treatment over anything. He will be the first to admit that this is too dangerous for a new arrival in QT without any signs of infestation. Copper is a last resort, when all else fails! But I will get it in writing from him if it makes you feel better. I think he is diving overseas right now if I remember but I know he checks his e-mail and I await his reply.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Cameron;31588 wrote:

That is just wrong. If a dog tests positive, they actually give heartworm drugs for six months hoping to rid the parasite so they don't have to give the more harmful treatment. If the medication doesn't work, they begin a pretty nasty form of treatment. I am well versed on this subject from much personal experience. The heartworm medication they give has virtually no effect on adults and prevents the larvae from maturing into adults. You do treatment right up till a series or arsenic like injections, wait a month and start treatment on the heartworm medication again.

I dont know dude- mread the section regarding treatment. Granted- death is not absolute, you are correct, but a serious possibility.

 

[cameron]

jmaneyapanda;31626 wrote: I dont know dude- mread the section regarding treatment. Granted- death is not absolute, you are correct, but a serious possibility.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?N=3001&aid=579">http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?N=3001&aid=579</a>[/QUOTE]

Our newest little rescue just passed the first round of treatment and will be going back in a couple months for her followup. Been a rough ride for our pets lately, Haley got cancer, Sadie was hit by a car (which is how we got her), Sadie has a growth on her tail, Sadie had worms when we got her but we had to begin aggressive treatment recently, right after Sadies treatments Haley was diagnosed with diabetes two months after her full physical. I am pet paranoid now and it probably shows in my above posts.

BTW, those warnings are a bit out of date, but the process is still similar to that. What they do is keep the dog on the medicine and hope it kills the parasites before they hit adulthood and infest. If in six months, they animal is still testing positive they begin treatment with a pretty nasty drug. Fortunately in the last couple years treatment is much better as they use a more mild medication but it is still quite detrimental to the animal, but not nearly as lethal as it used to be. The new meds are also much better at riding the parasite. Problem still remains with clotting problems though. After 6 weeks pass, you start the heartworm meds again. After six months you come back and they check to see if the animal is still testing positive. If so, another round of treatment or surgery. If it happes again, surgery or you put the animal down are likely outcomes.

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Yeah, my understanding of the heartworm issue is that dogs with adult heartworms that get the medication to kill it, will have complications due to the dead worms in the heart. Mind you, not the larvae, and maybe not a remedial infection, but death from treatment without suitable diagnosis can be problematic.

We're way off topic here. At any, I see that my techniques and understanding of hypo is far and away the minority, and doesn't seem to be helping anyway, so thanks again, and good luck to you all.

 

[cameron]

jmaneyapanda;31676 wrote: Yeah, my understanding of the heartworm issue is that dogs with adult heartworms that get the medication to kill it, will have complications due to the dead worms in the heart. Mind you, not the larvae, and maybe not a remedial infection, but death from treatment without suitable diagnosis can be problematic.

Heartworm preventative medication doesn't effect adults that is why you have to keep up the heartworm treatments because they are a shield to prevent the larvae from becoming a full blown infestation.

To bring this back onto topic, heartworm meds are very similar to hypo QTs. You know your pet has likely been exposed to heartworm much like fish and ick. You give a dog heartworm meds before you know they are infected because the test doesn't always show positive when they in fact can have early stages of heartworms. If you could control the environment to a large extent like our aquariums, you likely wouldn't give them followup treatments as the initial treatment killed off the parasites.

 

[jefft]

One question I have, and I read most of this thread until the peeing contest got full blown, is ick the same for fresh water and salt water? If so how does a fresh water dip relieve ick if a fresh water fish (whos always in a FW dip) gets ick also.

 

[FutureInterest]

No... Freshwater Ich and Marine Ich are caused by two different parasite protozoans. Ichthyophthirius Multifilis and Cryptocaryon Irritans respectively. You can use a saltwater dip to treat the former and a freshwater dip to treat the later. Makes sense right?

 

[jefft]

Thanks, I really didn't have any idea that they were two different bugs. I just hear everyone refer to it as ICK, and when they said FW dip I figured someone here will know. I think I'll buy a guppie and test him in a SW dip. lol

 

[FutureInterest]

My pleasure. They are VERY similar and I understand the confusion. The best thing about this hobby is that we learn something new all the time.

 

[ralph atl]

Xyzpdq0121;30962 wrote: Jmaney:
The only treatment that I recommend is a FW dip and Hyposalinity. Copper and Formilan are too dangerious for the "untrained" reefer to utilize, you are right. MOst other things just do not work! I fail to see how hyposalinity is dangerous and (as long as they dip is PH balanced) a dip is pretty safe as well.

Can I ask why you oppose prophylactical treatment of fish? I do not agree with giving copper to fish that show no signs of an illness but I also think that assuming that the fish is fine if you do not see a problem right away is careless. a QT and FW dip of fish causes no harm to the fish and may prevent the need for harsher treatments down the road. Win/Win in my book.

The methods discribed above are utilized by most every major public aquarium in the world. (Think it is hard to catch a royal in your tank, try the reef wall at the GA Aquarium!)

The treatment section (written by Steven Pro) outlines the different options that are available to the reefer. Pros and Cons of each. There is one true winner as a safe form of treatment but the others were provided to be as detailed as could be.

great stuff Brandon!

 

[ralph atl]

Great job Brandon, and actually, I think we agree in the 99% range! This should be a sticky somewhere.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

Problem is I have changed my opinions a bit over the past two years of independant research. After my job here is done, I am expecting to find some time in the new year to write something a bit more complete and up to date. Pluse I have a velvet one and Brook one in the works.

 

[ralph atl]

you can add/edit new info.

 

[xyzpdq0121]

mysterybox;248243 wrote: you can add/edit new info.

I know I can... I just have not had the time nor dedication to.

 

[ralph atl]

Xyzpdq0121;248242 wrote: Problem is I have changed my opinions a bit over the past two years of independant research. After my job here is done, I am expecting to find some time in the new year to write something a bit more complete and up to date. Pluse I have a velvet one and Brook one in the works.

that's cool