Let the games... BEGIN!!
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Well, JC... All I know is that I had a very healthy system until I added the liverock. I went through the cycling process and I'm sure of this because of all the indications my system was giving me (healthy, active, hungry fish, clear water) and I watched the Ammonia rise, then fall and Nitrite Rise, then fall and then Nitrate build up to over 10ppm. It was this way for a few days until I added the new Live Rock. I kept up with testing as I usually do since I find it enjoyable and noticed an insane ammonia spike and my fish were hiding constantly. At one point they were gasping for air at the surface. Not cool. my test readings were so crazy... 8ppm Ammonia, trace amounts of nitrite and 10ppm Nitrate. I did a series of 20% water changes with Purified water from Publix (a GREAT source to use, by the way) and Instant Ocean but nothing seemed to make a dent. The Ammonia would dip slightly and then come back full force. I started dosing Prime quite a bit and that helped tremendously with the coral and fish, but after another day or two, I wasn't seeing any fall in Ammonia or rise in Nitrites.
The only logical conclusion I can come to is that the Live Rock was breaking down or adjusting to its new home and was adding Ammonia faster than I could get it out.
Therefore, the reason for the assault on my liverock. I've added it back late late last night and everything seems to be going good. I'm going to test my water params again when I get home.
The only logical conclusion I can come to is that the Live Rock was breaking down or adjusting to its new home and was adding Ammonia faster than I could get it out.
Therefore, the reason for the assault on my liverock. I've added it back late late last night and everything seems to be going good. I'm going to test my water params again when I get home.
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and don't worry, haha.. I have plans in the works for a much larger tank.
This I'm sure of.
This I'm sure of.
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yeah.. I mean, I expected it might disrupt some of the parameters, but to essentially flood the entire tank with more Ammonia than Windex was NOT expected.
I'm hoping to be in the 30-40 gallon range within the next two months.
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Well honestly again it's because of having a small tank and when I had my mini cycle well it's a 120gaon so it didn't really affect anything. Well this is a smaller tank and remeber you have to watch the water paramamaters. In my opinion I think you should leave your tank just how it is. Do the water changes test the water and I wound add any more coral or fish and just wait those 2-3 months until you upgrade.
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yeah. That's the plan. Right now what I'm hoping for is to just grow beneficial bacterial colonies on my rock and live sand and keep it going and keep it healthy until I can move it.
Right now though, being in an apartment, working full time AND going to Law School at the same time.. I just don't have the time, energy or resources for anything even close to 120 gallons. So I am hoping to get to the 30 or 40 gallon range, breeder type tank (I like them more shallow) and have a handful of hardy attractive fish and focus more on corals since that aspect is new and exciting to me. I think 30-40 gallons would be completely manageable on my budget and schedule once it gets established. hell, if I could get my hands on a really cheap 40 gallon breeder and a stand, I'd re-home everything tonight! haha
120 gallons though.. I'm seriously jealous. One day, in the mancave, I hope to have something in the 200-400 gallon range.. but not for probably.. oh.. 30 more years..
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It shouldn't take 30 years to save with a law degree! :yes:
Do like I did and buy second hand - just sterilize everything, bigger tanks means more stable parameters. I got out of small tanks because it was like 5x harder to keep my 20 over my 110. Only real downsides comes water change time but if u make yourself a simple mixing station its cake, AND when you water change a larger tank its easier to keep parameters from swinging.
Do like I did and buy second hand - just sterilize everything, bigger tanks means more stable parameters. I got out of small tanks because it was like 5x harder to keep my 20 over my 110. Only real downsides comes water change time but if u make yourself a simple mixing station its cake, AND when you water change a larger tank its easier to keep parameters from swinging.
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OceanDeep85;968755 wrote: yeah. That's the plan. Right now what I'm hoping for is to just grow beneficial bacterial colonies on my rock and live sand and keep it going and keep it healthy until I can move it.
Right now though, being in an apartment, working full time AND going to Law School at the same time.. I just don't have the time, energy or resources for anything even close to 120 gallons. So I am hoping to get to the 30 or 40 gallon range, breeder type tank (I like them more shallow) and have a handful of hardy attractive fish and focus more on corals since that aspect is new and exciting to me. I think 30-40 gallons would be completely manageable on my budget and schedule once it gets established. hell, if I could get my hands on a really cheap 40 gallon breeder and a stand, I'd re-home everything tonight! haha
120 gallons though.. I'm seriously jealous. One day, in the mancave, I hope to have something in the 200-400 gallon range.. but not for probably.. oh.. 30 more years..
Trust me having a 120gallon...never thought that would happen but I had to and it was the cheaper tank and stand I could find. My old tank was slowly falling apart and the last night we had it it started leaving on 2 sides. It really stunk. Now watch this video and tell me about how jealous you are about a 120gallon....
Mistake's been made... now the trick is to learn from it! 
If the goal's to salvage what you've currently got, then I suggest you start treating the tank with Prime (seachem) or Alpha (aquavitro ne seachem) to bind the ammonia up in a non-toxic form. You'll still have to monitor for it as you've got livestock in the tank and the binding's only temporary - to buy you time to do a series of water changes or to allow your biofilter to break it down.
You may also want to dose a bacterial starter culture like Seachem's Stability, Dr. Tim's One-and-Only or Brightwell's Microbacter7 to give your cycle a bit of a boost - the bound ammonia needs to be taken up by something. That and/or add a big clump of macroalgae if you're already running reef grade lighting.
Look up "soft cycling" as to how to proceed. It's plausible to save at least some if not most of your starting critters without breaking the bank.
As for the baking/boiling to sterilize liver rock - don't do that again.
(but very glad you didn't have to learn why firsthand) Some truly horrible toxins can be released & vaporized by so doing - ditto the tip about no dual-use of utensils/bowls & cutting boards. Get some cheapo college-grade kitchen stuff to be your tanking workspace tools. Even if all that's spared is your sinuses - even if not particularly toxic just about everything WILL smell bad when you stress it or cut on it or it dies (some will, this happens).
Personally I started with a nano tank a couple years back as my first salt water/reef experience and it's going pretty well to this day. Setbacks over that period? Sure... but it's very rewarding and maintenance is incredibly easy!
If the goal's to salvage what you've currently got, then I suggest you start treating the tank with Prime (seachem) or Alpha (aquavitro ne seachem) to bind the ammonia up in a non-toxic form. You'll still have to monitor for it as you've got livestock in the tank and the binding's only temporary - to buy you time to do a series of water changes or to allow your biofilter to break it down.
You may also want to dose a bacterial starter culture like Seachem's Stability, Dr. Tim's One-and-Only or Brightwell's Microbacter7 to give your cycle a bit of a boost - the bound ammonia needs to be taken up by something. That and/or add a big clump of macroalgae if you're already running reef grade lighting.
Look up "soft cycling" as to how to proceed. It's plausible to save at least some if not most of your starting critters without breaking the bank.
As for the baking/boiling to sterilize liver rock - don't do that again.
(but very glad you didn't have to learn why firsthand) Some truly horrible toxins can be released & vaporized by so doing - ditto the tip about no dual-use of utensils/bowls & cutting boards. Get some cheapo college-grade kitchen stuff to be your tanking workspace tools. Even if all that's spared is your sinuses - even if not particularly toxic just about everything WILL smell bad when you stress it or cut on it or it dies (some will, this happens). Personally I started with a nano tank a couple years back as my first salt water/reef experience and it's going pretty well to this day. Setbacks over that period? Sure... but it's very rewarding and maintenance is incredibly easy!
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Thanks Bulk! I really appreciate it. Great advice. You'll be happy to know that I have the Prime flowing. And I agree that I'd love to have a beautiful little reef nano, but it's proving rather difficult to get going in a healthy fashion and it seems experienced reefers are rather convincing when they are all saying that I should move to something with a lot more volume. I'm just worried about cost, of course.
I'm curious about your advice on the bacterial starter... are those ones that you recommend? I've heard they are nothing but snake oil and a waste of money. I personally have not had much, if any, success using them in freshwater, but maybe salt is different?
JC, Kilral and any other experienced reef brothers and sisters... in your opinion, what should I keep my eyes open for? What's going to be a gallon range that you would suggest starting with? is 30-40 gallons appropriate?
I'm curious about your advice on the bacterial starter... are those ones that you recommend? I've heard they are nothing but snake oil and a waste of money. I personally have not had much, if any, success using them in freshwater, but maybe salt is different?
JC, Kilral and any other experienced reef brothers and sisters... in your opinion, what should I keep my eyes open for? What's going to be a gallon range that you would suggest starting with? is 30-40 gallons appropriate?
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oh my sweet lord, JC. That video was awesome.
still... as someone in love with Salt Water and the hobby and someone who's confined to a 10 gallon for the time being.. there's not a lot I wouldn't do to be able to have the space and money for a 110 gallon.
still... as someone in love with Salt Water and the hobby and someone who's confined to a 10 gallon for the time being.. there's not a lot I wouldn't do to be able to have the space and money for a 110 gallon.
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Bigger the better but I would say beyond 50-75 stuff becomes much easier to manage, its really up to your tastes in tanks. 75-150 gallon used aquariums go for anywhere between 100-400$ all the time. The extra costs associated with a bigger tank can be delayed as long as you are patient. You dont need a skimmer from day 1 if there is nothing to skim out, you wont even need lighting for that matter until your ready for coral. It IS more expensive in the long run, but it IS more stable. It really all depends on what your goals are and what you want to accomplish. Simply buying a 100g tank and throwing a few fish in is relatively cheap, load up on corals and the bill easily doubles so just keep that in mind.
My own example from this past 110G Build:
<u>Necessities</u>
250$ 110G Drilled Tank, Stand, Sump USED
100$ Mag 9 Main Pump NEW (will include as I use an old but purchased new for backup)
<span style="color: Red">225</span>$ Bulk Reef Supply RODI System + Two 32G Brute Trashcans (RODI/Saltwater Mix Storage)
100$ Reef-Octopus 110NWB Skimmer USED
150$ Dry sand + Dry Rock
50$ PVC Plumbing for Sump>Tank, Tank>Sump, and Sump>Reactors Ect
50$ Two Eheim Heaters
25$ Aqua Lifter + Tubing + 5 Gallon bucket for top off water
10$ Filter Socks
25$ Test Kits
<u>20$ Refractometer</u>
$780
<u>Requirements for Coral (My Own Opinion)</u>
250$ Apex JR. + ph probe
100$ Extra EB8 for more Apex outlets
150$ Current-USA 6 Bulb T5 Light Shroud USED
300$ Vortech MP40 USED
150$ Vortech MP10 USED
60$ Bulk Reef Supply dual chamber media reactor (GFO/Carbon) No longer using GFO so carbon/carbon
75$ Bulk Reef Supply Bio-Pellet reactor + media (MUST MOD BRS BIO REACTOR TO BE USEABLE)
60$ Mag 3 pump for the bio-pellets
25$ Seachem Matrix media
<u>50$ Test Kits</u>
$1220
Keep in mind these are quite rough numbers but within +/- 10%...</em> And in my own experiences, also keep in mind these figures are spread over the course of the past 2 years.</em>
I included the RODI unit under necessities because I believe that having plentiful amounts of RO on hand and not having to pay per bucket and make an extra drive to pick it up is IRREPLACEABLE.
My own example from this past 110G Build:
<u>Necessities</u>
250$ 110G Drilled Tank, Stand, Sump USED
100$ Mag 9 Main Pump NEW (will include as I use an old but purchased new for backup)
<span style="color: Red">225</span>$ Bulk Reef Supply RODI System + Two 32G Brute Trashcans (RODI/Saltwater Mix Storage)
100$ Reef-Octopus 110NWB Skimmer USED
150$ Dry sand + Dry Rock
50$ PVC Plumbing for Sump>Tank, Tank>Sump, and Sump>Reactors Ect
50$ Two Eheim Heaters
25$ Aqua Lifter + Tubing + 5 Gallon bucket for top off water
10$ Filter Socks
25$ Test Kits
<u>20$ Refractometer</u>
$780
<u>Requirements for Coral (My Own Opinion)</u>
250$ Apex JR. + ph probe
100$ Extra EB8 for more Apex outlets
150$ Current-USA 6 Bulb T5 Light Shroud USED
300$ Vortech MP40 USED
150$ Vortech MP10 USED
60$ Bulk Reef Supply dual chamber media reactor (GFO/Carbon) No longer using GFO so carbon/carbon
75$ Bulk Reef Supply Bio-Pellet reactor + media (MUST MOD BRS BIO REACTOR TO BE USEABLE)
60$ Mag 3 pump for the bio-pellets
25$ Seachem Matrix media
<u>50$ Test Kits</u>
$1220
Keep in mind these are quite rough numbers but within +/- 10%...</em> And in my own experiences, also keep in mind these figures are spread over the course of the past 2 years.</em>
I included the RODI unit under necessities because I believe that having plentiful amounts of RO on hand and not having to pay per bucket and make an extra drive to pick it up is IRREPLACEABLE.
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Wow, Kilral... quite the investment. I'm certainly jealous. I'll be there one day for sure. I'd love nothing more than to have a nice living room or mancave setup. It's always been and always will be a part of my plan.
JD- I'm looking at a few things and might be able to make a move soon. I'll keep you updated.
JD- I'm looking at a few things and might be able to make a move soon. I'll keep you updated.
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Yes it looks intimidating at first but pay close attention to the first category "necessities" and the fact that I have spent this amount over the past 2 years; I didnt drop $2000 dollars on day one, more like 50$ a month for the first 6 months and then double that when I decided to start keeping corals. After the $2000 dollars investment I don't buy much anymore except livestock, the city water bill and salt for mixing.
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hahahaha... Right!!?? something to look forward to.. I guess...
:sick:
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40 breeders seem to be very popular. If your like me.. You try to save every penny of money you can. I think I spend around 330$ for my tank,stand,sump,plumbing,retun pump, and skimmer. It was an AWESOME deal. Then I probably put another 100$ in extras supplies( tops, hanging kits for lights, fish food, chemicals. The one thing that hit me was lights... Lights are not cheap... AT ALL. And then you still have to buy LR and whatever other stuff you need. You can find super good deals in this hobby it just takes a while. I'm probably one of the only peope on this club that still goes to the store and buys saltwater lol. But you could probably find some awesome 40breeders on craiglist for great deals.
