Need a new calcium reactor Opinions

[sailfish]

See the thing is I always have to raise the effluent from the time when its full to when it's half empty but my coral demand also increase during that same time as my corals grow.

I have never been able to lower my drip rate accept once when I switched from Genx to carb sea which in my experience allowed me to maintain my levels with a lower drip rate. But which media is better is off topic.

Thanks Joe

ares;308045 wrote: I hear you... not sure about the geo reactors, but its a real PITA to change the media in the PM that I have. Id say Ill measure mine now that its full, and then again when its half gone, but if what you all say is true, might not be apples to apples if whats left at half full is less potent than new media would be.

 

[sailfish]

Well if getting larger reactor will not let me reduce the effluent drip rate then I may try a Nelson reactor but would rather just get a larger reactor.

Can't kill your tank with a calcium reactor.

Money is always concern I would rather not have to buy ether.

Joe

 

[mufret]

Joe, what's the dkh of your effluent? A larger reactor might help but your 612 should be able to handle your system, although you may have to add media more frequently. If you're using the larger media, lowering the ph in the reactor will be the first step. This will start breaking down the media at a faster rate. After you get the ph where you want it, start adjusting the effluent flow into the tank. It might take a few days to get it where you want it as it's best to make small changes and then let it run for a bit before tweaking it further.

 

[sailfish]

I just tested it and it is 6.7 coming out of the 2nd chamber.

I don't mind changing the media out more often but do not think it's good to have such a high drip rate. I was hoping by getting a larger unit I would be able to reduce the effluent back to an actual drip rate instead of a steady stream.

By the way I just change media last week add 2nd chamber 3 weeks ago and recalibrate my probe today. I have been trying to hold my dkh around 9.5 plus but can't do it unless I start running this thing at 130 140 ml a minute witch seems like a hell of alot.

Thanks Joe

 

[mufret]

The dkh is 6.7? That might be the issue. You should be shooting for a number considerably higher to stabilize the alkalinity of the system. Reducing the ph in the reactor and reducing the drip rate should allow you to get that number up.

 

[mufret]

This concentration, over time, is what will stabilize the system. A reactor is not really designed to increase these values but to maintain them. For that same reason, it's preferable to balance the parameters of a system before cranking up a reactor. Once installed, though, the key is to make these changes gradually so you don't cause other issues to occur. There may be something else going on that is driving the decreasing alkalinity.

 

[FutureInterest]

sailfish;308058 wrote: I just tested it and it is 6.7 coming out of the 2nd chamber.

I don't mind changing the media out more often but do not think it's good to have such a high drip rate. I was hoping by getting a larger unit I would be able to reduce the effluent back to an actual drip rate instead of a steady stream.

By the way I just change media last week add 2nd chamber 3 weeks ago and recalibrate my probe today. I have been trying to hold my dkh around 9.5 plus but can't do it unless I start running this thing at 130 140 ml a minute witch seems like a hell of alot.

Thanks Joe

It's all about the Alk and thus the Ca reading coming from the reactor that matters imo. Dont' get so hung up on the pH number .

 

[sailfish]

Alright guys test my mag and it is 1300 using a elos test kit. My dkh is tested with a lamotte kit and a API.

The PH out of the 2nd chamber is 6.7/6.8. I imagen why it's this high is because the PH in the first chamber is set below what it should be at 6.4 which for my contoller allows it to go between 6.3 and 6.5.

I do not see how one can reduce your drip rate without it droping my DKH.

I undersatnd that reactor is not made to increase dkh but hold it at a certaian level.

Thanks Joe

 

[sailfish]

The problem is I have to run this thing at full stream for it to keep my dkh up. I do not like it and it can't be good. I estimate I will need to run this thing at 140 to 160 ml a minute to keep it were I want.

That just can't be good for the system. What is you drip rate?

Joe

FutureInterest;308284 wrote: It's all about the Alk and thus the Ca reading coming from the reactor that matters imo. Dont' get so hung up on the pH number .

 

[FutureInterest]

Mine is maybe around 2 drops a second or so. I don't think your ph is low enough in the reactors if you have to keep your reactor on full stream. Especially since mine is a dinky lil coralife unit meant for 75 gallon systems lol. Try measuring the actual dkh of your effluent, the stuff coming out of the reactor. I keep mine at 21 and will raise or lower the ph in the reactor to achieve that... without regard to the reading on the controller.

 

[derek_s]

Thats a good point. So you are saying lower the ph until the effluent is high in dkh, thus enabling you to add less effluent for the same effect...? This of course works to the point where the meia melts, but it shouldnt be too big of a problem with larger media, right?

 

[oz]

FYI - this is a GREAT educational thread from some of the most successful SPS cultivators on ARC. Awesome guys. My SPS is doing outstanding large in part to you guys. Thanks again.

 

[mufret]

sailfish;308285 wrote:
I do not see how one can reduce your drip rate without it droping my DKH.

Reducing the drip rate will concentrate the alkalinity and calcium content of the effluent.

As Jin mentioned, testing the numbers coming out of the reactor is as important as testing the numbers in it (Don't get to hung up on the ph of the effluent, however, unless you are having significant ph swings in your system). Since you are using the larger media, you don't have to worry about turning the media to mush so the first thing is to get the PH in the reactor low enough that it's breaking down the media fast enough to meet your systems demand. Then start adjusting your drip rate to get the concentration of dkh that will keep your system stable. If you are using good media, your calcium will follow.

 

[sailfish]

I understand what you are saying but you would need to do both for it to work IMO. If you slow the drip but do not change the PH the increase of DKH in the drip would go up but you are also putting less into the tank off setting any increase in the DKH. I could be wrong but I think that I am not. I guess I could try it and maybe I will. I just do not like playing around with my display.

I checked my dkh of the effluent and it is 19 lamotte and 20/21 API.

I lowered my PH to 6.3 and will see how much that helps.

I was told by a calcium reactor company today that a larger unit will allow me to reduce my drip rate. They said if it would not make a difference then there would be no need to make different sizes for different size tanks.

I have an email into another manufacture and will see what they have to say.

I also started a thread on reef central.

Thanks for the input guys.

Joe

 

[schwaggs]

Joe,

Do you have a pH controller managing the pH in your Calcium Reactor Chamber?

If yes:
Changing you drip rate will have no effect on your dkh unless you crank the flow up to the point that you are not administering enough CO2.

If No (which is what I assume you have based on your answers):
Increasing your drip rate will reduce your effluent dkh.
Reducing your drip rate will increase your effluent dkh.
Neither of which will increase your system CA or Alk levels unless you increase or reduce your CO2 administation rate.

Using a pH controller with a CA reactor is mandatory IMO.

I wouldn't buy a CA reactor from someone that told me that a larger CA reactor would allow me to reduce my drip rate but keep adding the same amount of Alk/CA. Like someone said earlier in this thread, the amount of CA/Alk addred is related to the flow and amount of CO2 administered, not the size of the reaction chamber.

 

[sailfish]

Schwaggs thanks for the reply.

I do run a controller. it was set to 6.4 but today I dropped it to 6.3 . The effluent has a dkh of 19.

I guess I need a more efficient reactor more so then a larger one.

So what your saying is that I am screwed my tank is demanding so much that buying a larger reactor will not even help me.

If so what are my other options? My demand is only going to increase. My coral are only about half the size the can be.

I understand the thought that a larger reactor can not produce more DKH per unit of volume then a smaller one but if thats true then how do I go about meeting the demands of my corals 6 months from now. I just have to keep dumping more and more effluent.

In a year I could be at 240ml a minute.

Thanks Joe



I agree with this statement which is what I have been saying.

"SchwaggsJoe,
Changing you drip rate will have no effect on your dkh unless you crank the flow up to the point that you are not administering enough CO2."

 

[FutureInterest]

Just lower your ph some more, that should help you increase the concentration in your effluent. The worst thing you can do is melt the media.

 

[sailfish]

Thanks guys & Jin I am going to give it a shot.

If you guys could test you effluent and post your values along with PH in reactor and unit maybe we could figure out something. Me knowing what I get does not help me too much without something to compare it to.

I have to say that I hope a larger reactor will help because I am not real sure what I will do long term if it will not.

Thanks Joe

 

[sailfish]

I don't know for sure that it is wrong but I have never heard of anyone dripping that much. My PH swing is not that bad but when you go from 65ml to 110 plus that a big difference. I guess I feel that to much of anything can't be good. It seems safer to have a lower drip rate.

I am not even concerned with Calcium at this point but DKH.

How much does kalk help with DKH?

Joe

ares;308642 wrote: who says 240ml is wrong?

why must effluent be low? because it will affect tank PH? 50ml should affect 50g the same as 100ml will effect 100g, and 200 would affect 200g. you think the ga aquarium reef tank is running 50ml on their calcium reactor? they are probably running a hundred gallons an hour through some reactor the size of a small car.

more effluent, means more CO2, same PH in the reactor, more media dissolved, keep your calcium up

long as your PH isnt screwed by it... and if it is, meaning you have an overwhelming need of calcium for your tank volume, then you should probably be looking at kalk, or accept that your SPS can only have so much calcium in your volume of water.(I probably wouldnt accept that either though, Id look at kalk)

 

[oz]

For what it's worth Joe:

~700 gallon system with a few SPS colonies, a ton of frags and couple clams

Dual Chamber MRC with larger main chamber and Blue line re-circ pump
CaribSea ARM - larger coarse media
PH in the main chamber - 6.65
Drip rate: at least 3 drips per second
CO2 bubble rate is a little faster than 1 bubble per second

Calcium in the system is 400ppm
dkh in the system is 10
dkh from the drip is 19
PH of the overall system stays 8.30-8.31 24/7
Salifert test kit

Your calcium demand is a lot larger than mine at this point it looks like I can ramp up bigtime with my current setup. I hope to need as much as your tank soon!