Sales on ARC

[lshin037]

This is the opposite argument of a topic that pops up on R2R from time to time. Many folks complain about how expensive some corals are. That it’s outrageous how some coral farmers get a piece of never seen wild caught coral, give it some funny name, and charge an arm and a leg for a 1/2” frag. Is that fair? Maybe not but that’s business. There are plenty of folks that just want to be first one to have it and they have no problems paying the high prices. And I can understand that because I’m one of the dummies that used to get up at 2:45am to preorder the newest iPhone. I’m just not like that when it comes to corals.

As others have mentioned, this is a community that helps out our neighbors that have this similar interest. Seems that you value and respect the designer coral farmers and that’s cool. It’s your opinion and they should thank you for it. In my personal opinion, they’re in it solely to make money and I don’t feel bad about purchasing one of their 1/2” frag for $100, grow it to a mini colony, and sell 1” frags to supporting members for $10...or donate it to a club auction or help a member whose tank crashed and wants to start over.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cook]

We are talking about are small scale coral sales among hobbyists' here right? From what I have seen, the low priced corals are great deals and once they are gone, the price goes back up. What is the cheapest Indo torch anyone has seen here? Anyone that has one want to sell low? I'll take 2. At the end of the day, I have SPS frags from ARC members that I would not have otherwise because I got them for a price we mutually agreed upon and it has enabled me to learn to care for these corals. Part of this discussion also assumes 100% success for every frag sold, which is not the reality. I know I have made a few mistakes that cost me because many of these high end corals are sensitive creatures.

I can say that personally, if I have to sign a contract for restricted future sale or MAP pricing for a coral, I'm out. For others, I am sure that is no problem, it is a personal choice, a free country, and by default, a smaller market. We have a pure breed Bernese Mountain dog that we love and to buy him, I had to agree to crazy things like naming him after a Greek God and neutering him or paying a $5,000 fine per puppy if we bred him. This is the same deal.

Pricing in the For sale section of ARC- My opinion is that there shouldn't be public pricing discussions in the for sale threads, these should be in the form of private messages.

 

[tbrennan]

We are talking about are small scale coral sales among hobbyists' here right? From what I have seen, the low priced corals are great deals and once they are gone, the price goes back up. What is the cheapest Indo torch anyone has seen here? Anyone that has one want to sell low? I'll take 2. At the end of the day, I have SPS frags from ARC members that I would not have otherwise because I got them for a price we mutually agreed upon and it has enabled me to learn to care for these corals. Part of this discussion also assumes 100% success for every frag sold, which is not the reality. I know I have made a few mistakes that cost me because many of these high end corals are sensitive creatures.

I can say that personally, if I have to sign a contract for restricted future sale or MAP pricing for a coral, I'm out. For others, I am sure that is no problem, it is a personal choice, a free country, and by default, a smaller market. We have a pure breed Bernese Mountain dog that we love and to buy him, I had to agree to crazy things like naming him after a Greek God and neutering him or paying a $5,000 fine per puppy if we bred him. This is the same deal.

Pricing in the For sale section of ARC- My opinion is that there shouldn't be public pricing discussions in the for sale threads, these should be in the form of private messages.

100% agree in not buying any coral that I have to sign a “agreement” with. I’ll get it somewhere else or just not get it at all. But again that’s just me personally.

 

[rexx1029]

Guys when I started this whole conversation on the other post, it was never addressed to “arc” it was address in the the whole world. I understand arc is a tight not community that helps each other and gives each other deals. I am not against guys helping each other out on arc and thing and giving ok deals on here. But I saying there’s no reason to give someone that’s not in your tight nit community the same price if you are going out and selling things. This was never suppose to be some huge thing at all. I made a comment about some one saying that what chuck had his Illuminati’s for sale for was too high and in fact they were already a good bit below value in the first place, but he was on the page trying to help fellow members out to get a mini colony of a super nice coral. So I’m sorry to get this whole pot stirred up and never meant any harm by any of this at all. Yes help members on here out and sell things to them cheap that they are planning to put in their tank and enjoy yes but be sure people know what things are and what they are worth and maybe to not just get it and sell cheap to everyone else.

 

[lmm1967]

I don't sell coral - I'm better at paying for coral right before it dies (I'm desperately trying to change that!). For that reason I'm grateful for the deals I've run across here.

I have sold a fair amount of equipment. I typically sell it here cheaper than I do elsewhere - I've been burned by that as well. A few years ago I gave away a tank - with the hopes and intentions it would go to someone that could use a little boost to get a tank up and going. It was put up for sale a short while later - similar things have happened a few times here and it annoys me but my intention when dealing with (most) others here is to help the club & it's members.

I've also bought stuff that was supposed to be 100% functional that was actually flat out busted. I moved along, made a note to not deal with that person again and threw away the broken junk I was sold so it wouldn't happen to anyone else.

I'm not sure if many of you on this thread realize it or not (I know at least a few do) - but do you realize that one of the main complaints from local stores when asked why they won't do more for the club is due to the exact point that Rex is trying to get across? I personally know of at least 3 that want nothing to do with the club because of the frag swaps and the for sale forum here on this site.

And please stop the personal attacks - I've met Rex, he's come to my house and picked up a frag tank, he's a good guy - don't turn this kind of junk into a popularity contest - all of you are the losers when you allow that to happen.

 

[snowmansnow]

I'm personally kind of stumped as to why this is even a topic, not that there's anything wrong with discussing it.

ARC exists to further the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. ARC doesn't exist to make anyone money.
Keeping high prices is a ridiculous prospect in and of itself. Its just a coral... period. I can say this because of where this is being posted. If I were on a business page I'm sure it would be different. Also, let me tell you INVESTING in a coral is a VERY dangerous and unsound idea.

Over the years I've literally sold hundreds of sticks, and many of those frags were BIG (most noobs would call them colonies) frags of some pretty darn good corals that went for an average of 12-15$ a frag. It was a way for me to prune my colonies and at the same time meet some new people who in turn helped me roll the $ I made back into my hobby. It worked out fine.

ARC is also a place where I can still find reefers who still things in perspective, although I feel that percentage is dwindling.

If you want to make bank selling coral ARC is not your place. Go make your own webpage, advertise and run your business from there.
If you love the hobby, enjoy growing corals, taking care of exotic animals, and need a place to ask for help, give sound advise, and sell the occasional frag then this is a fantastic place to do so.

 

[Ira January]

I believe this went too far TOO fast. Let’s agree to disagree and move on. We are all grown Men/Women no need to fire shots at each other. Let’s keep the positive energy here going.

 

[NanCrab]

I'm personally kind of stumped as to why this is even a topic, not that there's anything wrong with discussing it.

ARC exists to further the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. ARC doesn't exist to make anyone money.
Keeping high prices is a ridiculous prospect in and of itself. Its just a coral... period. I can say this because of where this is being posted. If I were on a business page I'm sure it would be different. Also, let me tell you INVESTING in a coral is a VERY dangerous and unsound idea.

Over the years I've literally sold hundreds of sticks, and many of those frags were BIG (most noobs would call them colonies) frags of some pretty darn good corals that went for an average of 12-15$ a frag. It was a way for me to prune my colonies and at the same time meet some new people who in turn helped me roll the $ I made back into my hobby. It worked out fine.

ARC is also a place where I can still find reefers who still things in perspective, although I feel that percentage is dwindling.

If you want to make bank selling coral ARC is not your place. Go make your own webpage, advertise and run your business from there.
If you love the hobby, enjoy growing corals, taking care of exotic animals, and need a place to ask for help, give sound advise, and sell the occasional frag then this is a fantastic place to do so.

My husband said "yes" to this post. Nicely said

 

[Adam]

Because someone posted something for sale that is higher than you'd like to pay doesn't mean that this should get blown into a huge issue. Being a member here doesn't mean that you're automatically afforded the cheapest price for everything. Just as Chuck didn't have the right to call complainers McDonald's workers, the people that complained about the price didn't have the right to post about it is his sales thread.

I'm just as bad when it comes to looking for a bargain. When the Builder told be they wanted $3750 to put stairs on our deck, I politely declined. When the next quote I got was $2900, I didn't respond. Did I have the right to call them both nuts in public for charging what I think is too much, taring and feathering them for all to see? No I didn't. I just kept looking, the workers start today the price I got was $1700.
If something for sale is too high priced for you, move on and keep your comments to yourself. If it doesn't sell, the seller has the option to either lower the price or let the thread die. If you really want it send a PM/DM and negotiate the price. It's that simple. The thread should have been moderated with the 2nd post before it got out of control. I Googled the WWC Illumanati zoas, there were places that were much higher and some much lower that what he posted, but all included overnight freight. So there are options out there without bashing him.

I've heard it time and again. "ARC members are the cheapest people" This comes from all the LFS's and other members selling alike. There is a reason Nemo dropped out of being a sponsor. There's a reason Rit doesn't get much highend coral in. These are people running a business that are trying to make a living in the hobby they love. Rit got railed off here when he started being more than just a hobbyist. But he's got bills to pay and kids to put through college. Simon just had a baby boy. Listen people the 10% discount is slowly being dropped by many vendors and it will be gone soon. We're trying to find ways to add value to those supporting members beyond that discount. We're also trying to mend bridges with the LFS's to see if there is anything that can be salvaged with those relationships. The is a free market society and we all have our clicks and groups within this club. If someone wants to sell cheap here that's fine and no one should complain the the price is too low. The same goes in reverse.

I think some people have taken for granted how good of a community we have here. Maybe @ActiveAngel can enlighten us on how the Chicago forums are in regards to this topic or another member can post something about the city they recently relocated from.

 

[Tanster2]

Because someone posted something for sale that is higher than you'd like to pay doesn't mean that this should get blown into a huge issue. Being a member here doesn't mean that you're automatically afforded the cheapest price for everything. Just as Chuck didn't have the right to call complainers McDonald's workers, the people that complained about the price didn't have the right to post about it is his sales thread.

I'm just as bad when it comes to looking for a bargain. When the Builder told be they wanted $3750 to put stairs on our deck, I politely declined. When the next quote I got was $2900, I didn't respond. Did I have the right to call them both nuts in public for charging what I think is too much, taring and feathering them for all to see? No I didn't. I just kept looking, the workers start today the price I got was $1700.
If something for sale is too high priced for you, move on and keep your comments to yourself. If it doesn't sell, the seller has the option to either lower the price or let the thread die. If you really want it send a PM/DM and negotiate the price. It's that simple. The thread should have been moderated with the 2nd post before it got out of control. I Googled the WWC Illumanati zoas, there were places that were much higher and some much lower that what he posted, but all included overnight freight. So there are options out there without bashing him.

I've heard it time and again. "ARC members are the cheapest people" This comes from all the LFS's and other members selling alike. There is a reason Nemo dropped out of being a sponsor. There's a reason Rit doesn't get much highend coral in. These are people running a business that are trying to make a living in the hobby they love. Rit got railed off here when he started being more than just a hobbyist. But he's got bills to pay and kids to put through college. Simon just had a baby boy. Listen people the 10% discount is slowly being dropped by many vendors and it will be gone soon. We're trying to find ways to add value to those supporting members beyond that discount. We're also trying to mend bridges with the LFS's to see if there is anything that can be salvaged with those relationships. The is a free market society and we all have our clicks and groups within this club. If someone what to sell cheap here that's fine and no one should complain the the price is too low. The same goes in reverse.

I think some people have taken for granted how good of a community we have here. Maybe @ActiveAngel can enlighten us on how the Chicago forums are in regards to this topic or another member can post something about the city they recently relocated from.

I don't believe the discussion started with one individual's price, but it was started when another individual made claims that prices should be kept high and selling coral at cheap prices is bad for the community and will cause members to leave. That's really what all this is about. You have the right to sell coral at whatever price you want; you own it. However, stating that prices should be kept high because of one's own desire for rarities is something that warrants discussion.

Agreed that the discussion shouldn't happen on a sales post, but that's why we're here. I think it's a great thing to discuss, but we should all remember to be civil and courteous towards one another.

 

[Adam]

I don't believe the discussion started with one individual's price, but it was started when another individual made claims that prices should be kept high and selling coral at cheap prices is bad for the community and will cause members to leave. That's really what all this is about. You have the right to sell coral at whatever price you want; you own it. However, stating that prices should be kept high because of one's own desire for rarities is something that warrants discussion.

Agreed that the discussion shouldn't happen on a sales post, but that's why we're here. I think it's a great thing to discuss, but we should all remember to be civil and courteous towards one another.

I also think that having open discussions are great. Part of having discussions is when people disagree and talking amongst one another in a civilized manner. We're not going to always agree with each other. Like I disagree with your thoughts on how the thread started to devolve. I feel it started with the 2nd post, nothing that followed would have occurred beyond it. I don't think any less of you or that poster. We're all guilty of knee jerk responses from time to time. I've learned most of the time it's best not to respond right away all the time, that's why I didn't post on this topic last night and slept on it. I can't always do that, I'm human.

 

[kimxd]

Because someone posted something for sale that is higher than you'd like to pay doesn't mean that this should get blown into a huge issue. Being a member here doesn't mean that you're automatically afforded the cheapest price for everything. Just as Chuck didn't have the right to call complainers McDonald's workers, the people that complained about the price didn't have the right to post about it is his sales thread.

I'm just as bad when it comes to looking for a bargain. When the Builder told be they wanted $3750 to put stairs on our deck, I politely declined. When the next quote I got was $2900, I didn't respond. Did I have the right to call them both nuts in public for charging what I think is too much, taring and feathering them for all to see? No I didn't. I just kept looking, the workers start today the price I got was $1700.
If something for sale is too high priced for you, move on and keep your comments to yourself. If it doesn't sell, the seller has the option to either lower the price or let the thread die. If you really want it send a PM/DM and negotiate the price. It's that simple. The thread should have been moderated with the 2nd post before it got out of control. I Googled the WWC Illumanati zoas, there were places that were much higher and some much lower that what he posted, but all included overnight freight. So there are options out there without bashing him.

I've heard it time and again. "ARC members are the cheapest people" This comes from all the LFS's and other members selling alike. There is a reason Nemo dropped out of being a sponsor. There's a reason Rit doesn't get much highend coral in. These are people running a business that are trying to make a living in the hobby they love. Rit got railed off here when he started being more than just a hobbyist. But he's got bills to pay and kids to put through college. Simon just had a baby boy. Listen people the 10% discount is slowly being dropped by many vendors and it will be gone soon. We're trying to find ways to add value to those supporting members beyond that discount. We're also trying to mend bridges with the LFS's to see if there is anything that can be salvaged with those relationships. The is a free market society and we all have our clicks and groups within this club. If someone wants to sell cheap here that's fine and no one should complain the the price is too low. The same goes in reverse.

I think some people have taken for granted how good of a community we have here. Maybe @ActiveAngel can enlighten us on how the Chicago forums are in regards to this topic or another member can post something about the city they recently relocated from.

This. +++1!

 

[Eric_n_Ga]

Supply and demand runs any market. Only way to keep something proprietary is to keep it to yourself , then you have exclusive ownership and set any price you want ..of course till you sell it then it's " public domain" . Want to keep prices up ? Sell less at a higher price ,keep your market volume down .

 

[snowmansnow]

Supply and demand runs any market. Only way to keep something proprietary is to keep it to yourself , then you have exclusive ownership and set any price you want ..of course till you sell it then it's " public domain" . Want to keep prices up ? Sell less at a higher price ,keep your market volume down .

100% correct.
Ultimately a vendor DOES NOT and CAN NOT CONTROL the price of an item, unless that item is CLOSELY kept under control.
I'd hold that it is IMPOSSIBLE with coral because it easily reproduces.

It is impossible for a rare coral to REMAIN rare once it hits the market. Corals grow exponentially and their rarity drops exponentially. Theres no way to keep this from happening outside of some sort of power stone incident (or whatever it is Thanos used).

I understand how a business could see a club like this as a threat, HOWEVER, its nothing more than capitalism in action. Selling coral for a living is a HARD way to do things, and it requires a VERY good long term business plan. Hats off to some folks who have made it work.

 

[snowmansnow]

I believe a few folks compared ARC to R2R and other forums like that. I think it is important to make a distinction here; ARC is not just a forum, but rather a community too. Expensive corals are more accessible here because the awesome members of this club make it that way. Wanting to keep coral at high prices for sake of one's own covetousness is unjust in my own opinion. If you want to sell coral, I can totally understand why you'd be a little frustrated with the cheap prices here, but at that point you're better off online selling on other sites anyways. The generosity of this community does not drive reefers away from our club, I can tell you that.
[/QUOT

I believe a few folks compared ARC to R2R and other forums like that. I think it is important to make a distinction here; ARC is not just a forum, but rather a community too. Expensive corals are more accessible here because the awesome members of this club make it that way. Wanting to keep coral at high prices for sake of one's own covetousness is unjust in my own opinion. If you want to sell coral, I can totally understand why you'd be a little frustrated with the cheap prices here, but at that point you're better off online selling on other sites anyways. The generosity of this community does not drive reefers away from our club, I can tell you that.

I'll add to this.. sometimes expensive corals are available for cheap because the hobbyist is a hobbyist and not a business. Heres the thing.. if I like a person, and we get along, SURE I'll sell a chunk of something nice for REAL cheap. Nothing wrong with that

 

[ZapataInc]

I'll add to this.. sometimes expensive corals are available for cheap because the hobbyist is a hobbyist and not a business. Heres the thing.. if I like a person, and we get along, SURE I'll sell a chunk of something nice for REAL cheap. Nothing wrong with that

Well can we be friends....I promise i will get along with you. lol :angela:

 

[enderg60]

This thread is actually hilarious.

I buy corals for look not name or price point. If I buy a coral that sells for $150 an inch and it grows out Ill frag it and sell it for....WHATEVER THE HELL SOMEONE WILL PAY FOR IT. Which around here is usually A LOT less than I paid for it. For example my Blue tort. I paid $150 for a 1" frag. I would sell it for about $30 an inch. Same with Red dragon frags. Sure I could ask full price for it, but I would sell one maybe two frags instead of the 10 I had sitting there.

When my last tank was running I would have 50-150 frags every 6 months. It got to the point where if someone purchased some, I would give them extras just to get it out of the tank before the next fragging session filled it up again. Then I tried selling to LFS's rather than deal with all the no shows and hagglers. When I did I actually had people get mad at me for selling my stock to a store because they didnt get a chance at the "cheap price".

I honestly dont get why anyone cares. You dont buy a new car expecting it to retain its value for 5 years. When you go to sell it just because someone else sells theirs for $5k less than yours doesnt mean you can do jack about it.

This entire thread can be summed up with "Pay what you think its worth, sell for what you think you can get for it. If you cant sell it, lower the price or try selling somewhere else."

 

[rexx1029]

I'm personally kind of stumped as to why this is even a topic, not that there's anything wrong with discussing it.

ARC exists to further the hobby of marine aquarium keeping. ARC doesn't exist to make anyone money.
Keeping high prices is a ridiculous prospect in and of itself. Its just a coral... period. I can say this because of where this is being posted. If I were on a business page I'm sure it would be different. Also, let me tell you INVESTING in a coral is a VERY dangerous and unsound idea.

Over the years I've literally sold hundreds of sticks, and many of those frags were BIG (most noobs would call them colonies) frags of some pretty darn good corals that went for an average of 12-15$ a frag. It was a way for me to prune my colonies and at the same time meet some new people who in turn helped me roll the $ I made back into my hobby. It worked out fine.

ARC is also a place where I can still find reefers who still things in perspective, although I feel that percentage is dwindling.

If you want to make bank selling coral ARC is not your place. Go make your own webpage, advertise and run your business from there.
If you love the hobby, enjoy growing corals, taking care of exotic animals, and need a place to ask for help, give sound advise, and sell the occasional frag then this is a fantastic place to do so.

There is no one talking about making money and running a business at all its a convo about keeping a coral at its value exotic and rarity. Not everyone in the world need the same coral that’s why things are rare and have a price. That’s the point it has nothing to do with arc or making money what do ever. But thanks for your input too

 

[rexx1029]

Supply and demand runs any market. Only way to keep something proprietary is to keep it to yourself , then you have exclusive ownership and set any price you want ..of course till you sell it then it's " public domain" . Want to keep prices up ? Sell less at a higher price ,keep your market volume down .

So that is what these guys did actually Jason fox cornbred wwc and such have certain coral that are very rare and sale for much more as the grand master kraks and not meant for every reefer to have, yet some people decided it was the right thing to do was to go sell them for 500 bucks so they could make a quick buck. That’s the problem. I never said that every coral should stay high priced but I believe every coral has its place in a price point and that they should stay there. You should never be able to go online and see the same coral be 200,350,500,700,800,900,1100,1200,1500,2000. There is a huge problem there. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Never said arc is bad or too cheap or anything of the sort at all. I made a comment of about the whole reefing community in general of something that needs to be fixed. Yes over time coral will drop in price and come up and things depending on supply and demand but like I said there should be a pretty common price on the same coral. Thanks my point

 

[Chappy3076]

I have been in many groups where there have been argumenta over "that guy is over charging" or "that guy is undercharging and killing the market". I may think that to myself. But I would never call anyone out for selling their item at a certain price point. For someone to get p***ed off over what someone else is selling doesn't make sense to me.