Sales on ARC

[jcook54]

I have been in many groups where there have been argumenta over "that guy is over charging" or "that guy is undercharging and killing the market". I may think that to myself. But I would never call anyone out for selling their item at a certain price point. For someone to get p***ed off over what someone else is selling doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think anyone got mad about it. This whole topic was a conversation that got started on a "Sales" thread and I thought it was a good one so I started it in this forum instead. It's an interesting topic and leads to the larger conversation of "what is ARC?" and the answer to that question is certainly going to be different for everyone. I understand exactly what @rexx1029 is saying and it's not limited to this forum. I too have heard complaints that folks on ARC are 'too cheap' and I suppose I agree with the sentiment but not the implication. Part of the reason corals don't get top dollar on our sale or auction forums is because so many folks a generous. I don't feel like I've ever paid or charged retail for anything I've sold or bought on here. That's just not our thing. We're a group of friends in the Atlanta area who help each other out whether it be advice, a helping hand, a PAR reading or cheap coral prices.

 

[Tanster2]

So that is what these guys did actually Jason fox cornbred wwc and such have certain coral that are very rare and sale for much more as the grand master kraks and not meant for every reefer to have, yet some people decided it was the right thing to do was to go sell them for 500 bucks so they could make a quick buck. That’s the problem. I never said that every coral should stay high priced but I believe every coral has its place in a price point and that they should stay there. You should never be able to go online and see the same coral be 200,350,500,700,800,900,1100,1200,1500,2000. There is a huge problem there. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Never said arc is bad or too cheap or anything of the sort at all. I made a comment of about the whole reefing community in general of something that needs to be fixed. Yes over time coral will drop in price and come up and things depending on supply and demand but like I said there should be a pretty common price on the same coral. Thanks my point

Whether we agree or disagree, it doesn't matter. No hard feelings man. While I don't agree with you, I can see the point you're making. I think we're just beating a dead horse now.

 

[popsbjd]

So that is what these guys did actually Jason fox cornbred wwc and such have certain coral that are very rare and sale for much more as the grand master kraks and not meant for every reefer to have, yet some people decided it was the right thing to do was to go sell them for 500 bucks so they could make a quick buck. That’s the problem. I never said that every coral should stay high priced but I believe every coral has its place in a price point and that they should stay there. You should never be able to go online and see the same coral be 200,350,500,700,800,900,1100,1200,1500,2000. There is a huge problem there. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Never said arc is bad or too cheap or anything of the sort at all. I made a comment of about the whole reefing community in general of something that needs to be fixed. Yes over time coral will drop in price and come up and things depending on supply and demand but like I said there should be a pretty common price on the same coral. Thanks my point

The problem here is that, other than some grafted corals, these sellers don't create any corals. The buy wild corals and get them colored up under artificial lights. WD Tenuis is a prime example of that. Its absolutely a skill to get these corals colored up but I guess most of us don't believe your assertion that not everyone is meant to have them. That's fine that it is your opinion but sharing something I love with people who also love it is a big reason I enjoy any of my hobbies. You arguing that corals should stay at a price point is against basic economic principles. When you can only get a coral from cornbred or JF, they can charge whatever they want in essence. And some collectors will pay that. (Moreover, the only way to ensure you have a JF butthole berserker bounce disney tenius is to buy it directly from him. These are wild animals that display varying coloration under differing parameters. An unscrupulous seller could sell something as a drab colored [whatever] or color up something different entirely to similar colors and sell it as that coral.) Once there are multiple sellers with the coral (usually selling a frag as soon as they can reasonably snip a nub), the price inevitability drops. Second adopters likely pay close to the original price as the early adopters recoup some cost. 3rd, 4th, 5th down the line pay less and less. I don't see any way to regulate or stop this from happening. In the end, as long as you are happy with the price you paid for a coral, that is all that should matter.

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[lizzyann]

I do think the larger conversation about the coral market is pretty interesting actually. I'm super new to it so I'm curious about how all this works and the history of pricing and such. I've certainly seen the wide array of prices for similar pieces depending on where you get them.

One thing keeps getting me though, rexx1029. You keep saying stuff like this and I'm curious what you mean.

Not everyone in the world need the same coral that’s why things are rare and have a price

certain coral that are very rare and sale for much more as the grand master kraks and not meant for every reefer to have

I really just don't understand what you're saying. Not everyone in the world is going to have the same coral, there's plenty of options for everyone's specific preferences and tank set ups. What do you mean by "meant to have"? Are you saying that only people that have enough money to pay the highest original retail price of something deserve to have it? There's probably a lot of people out there that have cash growing on trees and buy up all the latest pricey coral without researching what that coral needs and kill a bunch of them. Are they deserving? What about the opposite, someone out there that just doesn't have the means to spend more than $30 on a frag but they are great reef keepers and would loooooove the chance to get some rainbow coral of their dreams and happen upon a seller that gives really good deals for that piece and are able to take stellar care of it?

Also your idea of rare seems to directly correlate to price. Is that true? Seems like there's plenty of easy to grow (but maybe really cool colors or the newest line or something) corals that are expensive but I still see them for sale everywhere. There's also corals that are really hard to come by but not incredibly expensive. That's rare too! Who is that coral meant for?

 

[Adam]

Things that were hard to keep 10 or 15yrs ago aren't so hard now. Technology is always coming along that makes things easier, the knowledge needed to keep a successful system expands through the net and groups like this even faster. @rexx1029 there's nothing anyone can do to slow this down. If those things come to a screeching halt we, as in humanity, have got a lot bigger problems other than what coral, zoa, fish is more rare than another. There isn't anything out there today that hasn't got a knockoff and sold cheaper. Well, maybe gold and other precious rare earth elements don't.

 

[snowmansnow]

There is no one talking about making money and running a business at all its a convo about keeping a coral at its value exotic and rarity. Not everyone in the world need the same coral that’s why things are rare and have a price. That’s the point it has nothing to do with arc or making money what do ever. But thanks for your input too

Help me understand.
Where is the difference between making money and keeping a coral at a high cost? If it is simply to keep a number next to a coral in an attempt to attach some fiat currency to it then what is the point. However if the idea is to keep something of value valuable in order to sell it at said value then yes, that is a matter of making money. A coral is worth whatever someone will pay for it, not unlike a baseball card.

A coral of any particular variance has no innate value in and of itself. I understand that rarity can dictate value, however there is no way to keep something rare in a case where so many people are able to reproduce it.

peace

 

[snowmansnow]

Things that were hard to keep 10 or 15yrs ago aren't so hard now. Technology is always coming along that makes things easier, the knowledge needed to keep a successful system expands through the net and groups like this even faster. @rexx1029 there's nothing anyone can do to slow this down. If those things come to a screeching halt we, as in humanity, have got a lot bigger problems other than what coral, zoa, fish is more rare than another. There isn't anything out there today that hasn't got a knockoff and sold cheaper. Well, maybe gold and other precious rare earth elements don't.

This IS part of the equation. 15 years ago SPS was REALLY a different ballgame than it is today. Lighting was WAY different, controllers were nearly absent, and filtration was... well horrible haha.

 

[snowmansnow]

So that is what these guys did actually Jason fox cornbred wwc and such have certain coral that are very rare and sale for much more as the grand master kraks and not meant for every reefer to have, yet some people decided it was the right thing to do was to go sell them for 500 bucks so they could make a quick buck. That’s the problem. I never said that every coral should stay high priced but I believe every coral has its place in a price point and that they should stay there. You should never be able to go online and see the same coral be 200,350,500,700,800,900,1100,1200,1500,2000. There is a huge problem there. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Never said arc is bad or too cheap or anything of the sort at all. I made a comment of about the whole reefing community in general of something that needs to be fixed. Yes over time coral will drop in price and come up and things depending on supply and demand but like I said there should be a pretty common price on the same coral. Thanks my point

I MUST be misunderstanding what all this means. No judgement here... just following to see what you mean.

 

[snowmansnow]

BTW I think there are too many loose ends and fuses going in different directions to be able to resolve anything of substance here...

 

[rexx1029]

That’s is correct but my argument is that coral needs to stay in its respected price range across the board. That is why there is millions of corals of every price point and that’s so everyone can have something. But everyone doesn’t need to have every thing or the same things. That’s my point. On a general sales platform that is. Not bashing arc or any one person or group but the reefing community as a whole

 

[rexx1029]

BTW I think there are too many loose ends and fuses going in different directions to be able to resolve anything of substance here...

Oh I 100% agree that nothing will be resolved by any of this at all. Crazy thing all I did was make 1 simple comment one a sale page that someone bashed a seller for pricing and it has turned into over 8 pages of comments between the 2 post. I just think as a whole each coral on a norm sale platform should stay around the same price. And yes the price will go down and up over time but like I said before it’s not right that you go online and see a piece of the exact same coral range for 300-2500 dollars. That’s my point. It’s one thing like I said to hook up a family or friend but also making them aware of what the coral cost if they did decide to sale after growing out and such. My thing is if I’m going to do that and hook someone up I’m prob just going to give it to them rather than sell say a 300 poylp for 20-30 bucks. But also make sure they know what the value of it is and that they need to keep it around that

 

[rexx1029]

Help me understand.
Where is the difference between making money and keeping a coral at a high cost? If it is simply to keep a number next to a coral in an attempt to attach some fiat currency to it then what is the point. However if the idea is to keep something of value valuable in order to sell it at said value then yes, that is a matter of making money. A coral is worth whatever someone will pay for it, not unlike a baseball card.

A coral of any particular variance has no innate value in and of itself. I understand that rarity can dictate value, however there is no way to keep something rare in a case where so many people are able to reproduce it.

peace

It’s not the point of making money or selling but if a grower like jf sells you a coral for 500 bucks but then you want to frag and sell for 20 bucks then now everyone will have this 500 dollar coral where the guy that bought it at the same time as you said I want to buy this 500 rare coral because I want to have something that you don’t see in everyone s tank so I’m going to spend my hard earned money on so I can make it my center piece of my tank. Then a few weeks later he finds out you sold all your pieces for 20 and now everyone around has the same coral as him and got it for 480 dollars cheaper it’s really just now right. And I do understand what people are saying as more people get things it drive value down but that is the whole point, if you don’t give everyone and their mother this coral for pennies on the dollar and your respect the it who created it and has made a price for it then the corals value will stay higher longer and yes will eventually go down but it won’t do so rapid as things are right now.

 

[tclogston]

I don’t know why I allowed myself to get sucked in to this thread..but I did.

My money, my tank, my fish and my corals....I will do with each of those as I see fit and I expect everyone else will do the same...and that really is all that needs to be said.

 

[wake125122]

It’s not the point of making money or selling but if a grower like jf sells you a coral for 500 bucks but then you want to frag and sell for 20 bucks then now everyone will have this 500 dollar coral where the guy that bought it at the same time as you said I want to buy this 500 rare coral because I want to have something that you don’t see in everyone s tank so I’m going to spend my hard earned money on so I can make it my center piece of my tank. Then a few weeks later he finds out you sold all your pieces for 20 and now everyone around has the same coral as him and got it for 480 dollars cheaper it’s really just now right. And I do understand what people are saying as more people get things it drive value down but that is the whole point, if you don’t give everyone and their mother this coral for pennies on the dollar and your respect the it who created it and has made a price for it then the corals value will stay higher longer and yes will eventually go down but it won’t do so rapid as things are right now.

So I am going to take it you are going to hate what IQuatics is about to do then. Not sure if you know but he is about sell fish and coral at crazy low prices. For example not sure if you have seen but he is going to sell Gem tangs for $385 where most people sell them for $600+

 

[tclogston]

So I am going to take it you are going to hate what IQuatics is about to do then. Not sure if you know but he is about sell fish and coral at crazy low prices. For example not sure if you have seen but he is going to sell Gem tangs for $385 where most people sell them for $600+

Reef lounge USA has been selling them for $280 since the beginning of January

 

[wake125122]

Even better example lol

 

[Doberman13]

Depending on shipping costs Iquatics in Duluth may be cheaper

 

[wake125122]

Depending on shipping costs Iquatics in Duluth may be cheaper

True. Not sure if anyone saw but they are getting a lot of designer clownfish soon and purple tangs.

 

[lmm1967]

Until the large retailers threaten to close their accounts with any wholesaler or exporter that does any business with them. Maybe it won't happen - but, I'd be surprise if it doesn't.

LA, BRS, MD etc are not going to let anyone kick sand in their face without consequences.

 

[Doberman13]

Unless I'm misinformed Mike at Iquatics is a wholesale importer.