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Sick Dogface Puffer Help
- Thread starter jcr37962
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Just make sure you only do about 25% a day, not all at once. It will shock your inhabitants too much!
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Brook is making its rounds so I would read up and study the signs because you have a fish that is prone to it and is showing a sign or two...
Hmmmm, I'll read up on that disease, I'd never even heard of it until a few days ago. The symtoms sounded more like poor water quality, coupled with readings that were listed.
Brandon, if you get a chance, could you give me the proper spelling of that particular crude?
Thanks!
Brandon, if you get a chance, could you give me the proper spelling of that particular crude?
Thanks!
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Ya it is Brooklynellosis or some times goes by Chilodonella (although the second is only in FW some people misapply the word.)
Start your reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm</a>
See I do not attribute this to water quality, his NO3 is not TOO high for a puffer who can survive in a FOWLR at NO3 rates + 100.... Unless his O2 is low or a high CO2.. with all that is going around right now, I think it is wise to read up on the illness...
Start your reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm">http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm</a>
See I do not attribute this to water quality, his NO3 is not TOO high for a puffer who can survive in a FOWLR at NO3 rates + 100.... Unless his O2 is low or a high CO2.. with all that is going around right now, I think it is wise to read up on the illness...
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Need to do a CDC type investigation and find the common denominator.
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Try Soaking The Food In Garlic Overnight
jcr37962;64422 wrote: What does the garlic do.
The garlic enhances the flavor of the food for picky eaters. We used this on our (currently ailing) dogface puffer.
Here's how we treated him and he seems to be doing remarkably better:
We keep a bag of frozen seafood medley in the freezer (it's called Aqua Star - I think we got it at Publix, maybe Kroger) as a treat for our fish. The medley contains raw octopus, cuttlefish, squid and shrimp. Be careful, because it also contains cooked mussels and clams, and those must be discarded.
I cut up bite-sized pieces of the frozen food and let it soak in http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/GarlicGuard.html">Seachem Garlic Guard</a> until it was thawed.
I skewered a piece of food from the garlic soak onto a long, wooden skewer, sprinkled it with [IMG]http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Metronidazole.html">Seachem Metronidazole</a> and target-fed the puffer. He would eat about 3 bites and then not want anymore. He now resides in the 'fuge to have some peace away from the other fish and it's easier to feed him there. So far, he looks much better and we're keeping our fingers crossed.
NOTE: <u>no one else on the forum has mentioned Metronidazole and everyone may poo-poo the very idea of using it</u>, but when I asked at CapBay if they had any Methalene Blue, I was told this was comparable and to sprinkle it on the food. I believe the consensus here is to use meds as a last resort, and that's what we were doing. We were willing to give anything a try at that point, because it looked like Fido was a goner.
NOTE 2: directions with Metronidazole recommend using the product with [IMG]http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Focus.html">Seachem Focus</a>, but we didn't have any of that on hand and CapBay didn't mention it while I was there. I'll have some on hand after today.
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Linda Lee;64430 wrote:
NOTE: <u>no one else on the forum has mentioned Metronidazole and everyone may poo-poo the very idea of using it</u>, but when I asked at CapBay if they had any Methalene Blue, I was told this was comparable and to sprinkle it on the food. I believe the consensus here is to use meds as a last resort, and that's what we were doing. We were willing to give anything a try at that point, because it looked like Fido was a goner.
I do not Poo Poo on the idea... Metronidanzol is a anti-biotic though and never really been proved for any desiese prevention or cure. There has bee SOME sucess with it in treating Ich but It is very difficult to use correctly. Most of the sucess has come when it was injected via IV into the fish (which of course you are not going to do)! Oral treatment is baised off amount consummed by the fish Vs body weight of the fish.
"</em>Tetra previously made a medicated food, Anti-Protozoan Medicated Flakes, which was reported to be effective against Cryptocaryon. The active ingredient was Metronidazole, also known as Flagyl. This was a good option when it was impossible to remove the fish to a separate quarantine/hospital tank because this food was safe for use in the display tank. The only downside was whether the fish could be coaxed to eat it at all and whether they could eat enough of it. Although the Tetra Medicated Food is now discontinued, Metronidazole is available, so it is possible to obtain it and mix it into the fish's favorite food and, with luck, to elicit a feeding response. </em>
The medicated foods are a good option for use as a preventative, for mild infestations, or when used in conjunction with one of the other less effective treatments, such as biological controls, UV, ozone, and garlic. All of these methods could be employed together in a display tank when removal is not chosen, although this is not the most effective solution, in my experience. I have always had better luck going through the trouble of removing all the fish for separate treatment or better yet, quarantining all new livestock and avoiding infection in the first place. </em>
There is one possible drawback to this treatment that was brought to my attention. Feeding something like Metronidazole, or potentially even garlic (discussed below), could have deleterious affects to the beneficial microflora of a fish's intestine, much like the side effects to Copper exposure (Dr. Charles Moon, aka moonpod, pers. comm.). Additionally, any medication with significant antibiotic properties will act upon the bacterial populations living in the system, and will foster the development of drug resistant bacteria (Dr. Ron Shimek, pers. comm.). I have only used this type of product a few times, but never in a reef tank, so I cannot speak to those claims. I found these to be moderately successful against Cryptocaryon, although it required twice as many applications as the manufacturer stated on the instructions to affect a complete cure. My biggest complaint is how expensive it was, in particular accounting for the amount and time needed to affect a full cure. Anyone who wishes to try one of these products should perform a search on several of the online message boards to get additional feedback prior to purchasing. Based on my own experience alone, I cannot recommend them. "</em>
Focus is used to "bind" the medication to the food so more of it is consumed. It is tough to work with and I do not think it works very well.
As an interesting side note, I cornered the Seachem guy at the last meeting and asked him to explain Metronidanzol to me and point me to any more sources that proved that it worked or any independant testing, He could not! So for nw I take the approach of it might work, it might not but I do not think it will "cure" an entire system. There is also the risk of too long of treatment can lead to other problems in the fish or too little Metronidanzol could make a "resistant" parasite or illness, not too unlike drug resistant staph in humans. So I would use wisely.
On my last side note, Meth Blue is NOTHING like Metronidanzol, NOTHING. But is does not surprise me that Cap Bay would tell you it was. I bet a dollar they do not know what Meth Blue is and asked what you were trying to treat and knew that they carried a $10 bottle of Metronidanzol and thus it becase "like" Meth Blue.
Again, not to scare your off because I am VERY interested to see your long term success with Metronidanzol. I have not heard of giving it in the manner in which you are and you might juset be able to get enough in the fish to make a difference, but I have concerns if you can medicate all your fish that way.
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