Sump, how big should it be?

[ga_daisy]

I have a 235 gal display. My current sump is 90 gal. Is this big enough?

The reason I'm asking. I had a power outtage due to a storm a few weeks back. I was not home. The sump overflowed. When the power kicked back on, the external pump pulled almost every drop of water out of the sump and into the display. I had a bazillion tiny air bubbles in the display.

Another question.....how do I avoid such drama again?

 

[ga_daisy]

I suppose my biggest issue is that I bought the system used and had the guy that I bought it from tear it down for me and set it up and I was in and out during the transition and didn't devote enough time to make sure I knew what did what and what was where.

I'm sooooo not the do it yourselfer. I enjoy reading the do it yourself postings, but I haven't a clue as to what most of it is or means. The information could be written in Greek and I would understand about the same.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think that the issue is that the return line is actually at the bottom of the overflow.

 

[jt955]

your return is at the bottom? is it plumbed up and over the overflow or through the overflow?

jt

 

[dakota9]

Minimize Display Tank drainage by drilling a hole higher on your return.

The size of your sump is fine, nothing to worry bout their.

 

[ga_daisy]

I think I lost about 15 or so gal.

I'm not sure how it is plumbed as far as where the return is set up (top middle or bottom) of the two overflows. The drain is in the bottom, not the back or over the top.

Again....my tank is NOT set up for logistics. I have to climb up on top of my nightstand to be tall enough to just look over into it (I'm 5'6"). AND.....then the access hole is just big enough for my head, with a little wiggle room (does that mean that the hole is small or my head is big?)

I tried draining the sump down to a "sweet spot" line. BUT.....that didn't work. Because I had the sump at minimum, and when I cut the power, it slowly filled up to right at overflow and I hit the power again....

Hopefully this weekend, I will have time to really deal with this.

 

[william1]

I went with a tall 55 gallon sump to accomidate the extra water instead of a 55 breeder.

 

[ga_daisy]

This is a 90 gal (I'm going to check the dimensions and make SURE that its 90) Oceanic Reef ready sump. I have a good bit of live rock in the back side (where the water is actually dumped into the sump), but shouldn't be enough to displace THAT much water.

I'm getting a protein skimmer in a bit, Thanks Don! And....I'll have my hands over in it tonight. I will check the measurements, figure volume and make certain that it is a 90 gal. While I'm knee deep into it, I will check out the other plumbing.

Oh.....and one thing that I have noticed.....on the right side overflow the water only comes up to about midlevel. In the left side overflow the water level stays towards the top. Does that tell you guys anything?

 

[ga_daisy]

Ok...found return, its submerged about 1/3 of the way down into the overflow. THUS....the issue. Now as to how I'm going to fix it, I've not a clue, because all of this stuff is GLUED on tight.

 

[jt955]

when you say return are you talking about the one that drains to the sump possibly?

 

[jt955]

ares, that makes much more sense than what i was thinking.

 

[ga_daisy]

OMG.....I feel like a foreign exchange student!

Sorry guys, seriously......lost.

I never realized how plumbing challenged I am until now.

I'll borrow a better camera tomorrow and take pictures. I assure you that I can't describe what I've got going on, and I'm sure the camera on my phone won't take a picture that you could make out. Its a really tight space, not sure if I'll be able to get a shot with any camera that will make sense.

I feel like everyone must be reading this, shaking their heads and waving there hands in the air saying over and over, "Help me, help you!"

 

[ga_daisy]

Thanks Barbara.....thanks all of you!

I managed to knock the heck out of my knuckles trying to get my hands down in there and "feel" my way around. If you would have told me a year ago that Friday night would be me on a date with my overflows I would have :slap:

lol.....sorry couldn't resist a smiley after digging around in the overflow.

This is what I found. There are two pipes that are connected to the bottom of the overflow. Obviously one is a return from the sump into the display and the other is dumping into the sump. The one that dumps into the sump comes up, has an elbow, jets back down about 1/3 of the way down into the overflow and has a grate type nozzled end on it (to keep swimmers out I suppose). I have quite a bit of squishy green algae growing down in there (too bad I can't frag and sell it!)

Now.....I'm ASSUMING (there is a word I shouldn't be using as this juncture!) that the issue is within the placement of this grated nozzle thingy. As to how to move it......well, I've not a CLUE and am TERRIFIED of jacking around too much with the plumbing on something that holds this much water in my house! I'm guessing that the elbow needs to be removed altogether thus leaving the grated nozzle thingy up towards the top of the overflow.

I did find where the guy that had the tank before me drilled two TINY holes (one for each overflow pipe), I, again....am ASSUMING that this was for the purpose of breaking the suction. WELL....one of the TINY holes was covered with algae gunk. And the other has water jetting out of it. Again.....they are TINY, not sure if it would be big enough to break suction or not.

Does ANY of this sound remotely like what you guys are talking about? (I'm such a fan of the dummies books, I'm sure you all understand why? lol) Talk slowly, use small words.....I will raise my hand if I start getting confused (as she positions hand on the ready for the inevitable!)

 

[rbredding]

what you're saying makes sense.. but in order to fix the issue and not suggest "fixes that won't fix" we've gotta see a picture of your overflows (are they in the corners so you can give us a "side shot" of them?)

 

[ga_daisy]

Ok....let me see, yes confused adequately. Thank you...lol

DT and sump are glass

Don't think I have a seal issue with the overflows (unless its towards the top) because the time this happened, the power shut down in the morning. It was after class (10 pm) before I got home. The water level in the DT was back up because the power had kicked back on. There was basically no water over by the returns in the sump, BUT the water level appeared normal in the display tank. I added three or four buckets of water to the sump and it was back up to its normal level. (buckets were not completely full, two were the 5 gal Homer paint buckets from HD and the other was a bucket from salt ..... I'm pretty sure its 5 gal also) So, best guestimation would be 15 gals had to be added back.

I talked to the guy that I bought the tank from. He said that the same thing had happened to him. He said he talked to his guy at Aquarium Outfitters in Athens and the guy told him to drill the holes. He said that the next time it happened, the holes worked. BUT.....the two or three times after that they didn't. (he however was out of work at the time and was able to catch it in time and utilize the shut offs that are on the lines)

Which makes me wonder, were the holes full of gunk at the time of his next power outtage or is it perhaps that the holes just aren't big enough? OR, could there be a leak as you guys suggested in my overflows, but towards the top.

Any suggestion as to how I could test the leak theory? WITHOUT flooding my bedroom, please.

Back flow from the return pump could be a possibility, anyway of testing that?

If "I"......WE figure this out, I'm so gonna owe you guys drinks!

Everytime I'm at work and I hear thunder, my heart skips a beat! I live about 40 minutes from work and can't just go home to babysit the plumbing of my system. My son, being a teenager is not exactly "aware" of his surroundings about 50% of the time and can sleep through a storm that could rip the roof off of the house. He was here the other day and aware when a storm was brewing and I had him shut down the external pump and shut off EVERY valve on EVERY line going to and from the tank. Of course, that day.....the power never went out, but better safe than soggy carpet.

 

[ga_daisy]

Ok....I'll tinker with it in a bit......BUT, I've already ran into a concern with one of your stated possibilities. I have 10 returns in my tank.....some are located at the bottom, poking up through the sand. So....if that is the issue, not sure what I'm going to do.

But....wait, it can't be the issue because if it were the tank would have been bled dry. (OMG....what a horrific mess that would have been!)

 

[ga_daisy]

Girl....work with me here, what is a closed loop? Keep in mind, I bought this set up used. He tore it down and set it back up.....I've not a clue as to the difference is.

 

[weaglereefer]

Another trick you can use is to drill a small hole in the top elbow of the return pipe. It will shoot a bit of water into your overflow, and you will get hella bubbles when you restart the return pump, but it's a good failsafe to keep from back siphoning your tank.

 

[ga_daisy]

Pretty close.....its no big deal to call him. I just feel like a total DUH.

As best I can explain the system....

DT has two overflows, one on either side, in the back, inside of the tank.

There are two lines that carry water (one from each overflow), into the sump via PVC and flex hose. This PVC runs is connected via bulkheads in the bottom of the overflow and there is no pump, it all runs based on gravity.

On the other end of the sump there are two downward turned PVC elbows. These are pulling water out of the bottom of the sump, via an external pump that moves 3900 gph. They are connected to the pump, then t-off in either direction coming up through the overflows in the bottom of the tank. Each overflow has a pipe that goes up the length, then it T-s off and runs down the outside of the overflow with return knuckled nozzles. The water is then fed back into the display through this network of nozzles.

Does this help the visual?

 

[ga_daisy]

au01st;370462 wrote: Another trick you can use is to drill a small hole in the top elbow of the return pipe. It will shoot a bit of water into your overflow, and you will get hella bubbles when you restart the return pump, but it's a good failsafe to keep from back siphoning your tank.

Have tiny holes.....not sure if they may have been plugged up during the drowning of my carpet though.

Ok, wish me luck guys. I'm going to go in there and pull the plug. Sit, watch, wait and make mental notes of everything that I see.

Will report back here in a few.

 

[jt955]

ok so where the pump is plumbed up the overflow but before it tees off to the nozzles does it break the surface of the water? if it does check for holes right under the waterline.