nitrate dilemma

[russ-iv]

JimmyStephens;1042823 wrote: Imo: I would just leave it all alone chemical/dosing wise and just let the tank run its course. I've seen more damage to tanks by chasing numbers. If cyno is the problem may be cut back on the hours or intensity of the leds.

see that is where i disagree.

i fight cyano intensifying the light and pulling out what has grown by the end of the light cycle. if you dont let cyano eat whatever its gonna eat, or settle in places you cant see, that bacteria will colonize faster than you can remove it.

i embrace cyano tbh. once it forms a nice thick sheet of carbon and nutrients i pull it out. "thanks cyano for showing me where u are".

otherwise when the light flips back on, and any cyano is still alive, itll come back and eat MORE carbon and thrive on MORE light.

flipping lights is a short term fix for a long term problem.

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Russ-IV;1042822 wrote: i am skimmerless. that is my point.

id get in to the background of my setup but i dont want to ruffle feathers.

my hypothesis after doing this "test" is that a skimmer creates more nitrates than it removes. crazy right?

thats why i did it this way. i can afford a 1/2 hp chiller but not a skimmer? cmon. the issue i observed with my 220 was 2 things. one, once nitrate got super high it saturated the rocks and the sand bed. it kept leaching it for years. biopellets, vodka, etc.

i got so paranoid i went el natural. i figured if i cycled my tank, threw in a crap ton of zooplankton and phyto that it would take care of the detritus for me. no crabs messing with my lps, no peppermint shrimp scavenging my corals.
i made sure nitrate never hit 20 ppm.

i made a crude ats in place of my skimmer. threw in a dsb in the fuge and just used a gfo reactor for po4.


i knew phyto would cloud my tank up so i figured id use carbon if i had to

that is why i am in this situation

Would you elaborate on why a skimmer causes more no3?

Also, isn't cyano a mix of low flow and to much light? Not sure if you are using powerheads or not, but pointing them in the area of low flow/ dead spots might help.

 

[jimmystephens]

+1 more flow.

 

[russ-iv]

LSU_fishFan;1042829 wrote: Would you elaborate on why a skimmer causes more no3?

Also, isn't cyano a mix of low flow and to much light? Not sure if you are using powerheads or not, but pointing them in the area of low flow/ dead spots might help.

ok so... bare with me because im sure ill be branded a heretic.

what do you think skimmate is? there was an article on live aquaria about it but it fit my hypothesis. it isnt all that oil slick you see at the top of your aquarium. it is non discriminate. your oil slick is not "green poo" either. you are sucking up everything. phyto, excrements, copepods, bristle worms... everything. its just science.

copepods and amphipods need some sort of phyto as do a number of corals and other life. imho it is most aggressive with the lowest form of life. eg phyto. once phyto is out, copepods and other inverts hve to rely on macro algae. turf algae, etc. your cuc cleans up a majority of this. but you killed the first line in the food chain. copepods and amphipods die in dt while they thrive in the fuge just to be sucked up later in the dt. they eat diatoms, detritus etc but you cut off their main food source to thrive.

not only that but you are sucking up trace elements that are replenished with wcs.

pick up any rock in your aquarium and let the powerhead blow it off. see all that trash in the water column? i dont have it. i have white heterotrophs attached in a stringy chain of clear gobs. quite different than the trash i saw before.

also cyano thrives on carbon dosing. we all have cyano. its just to what extent. atm im dealing with a new tank and itll still be around, just like everyone else. but it has to balance via mother nature.

by all means, dont change what you do because of what i am attempting. every system is different and if u have a huge bioload i dont see how the micro and nano fauna will adapt.

commence the burning.

 

[russ-iv]

JimmyStephens;1042830 wrote: +1 more flow.

and let it live in the fuge.

my turnover is 20x.
itll balance itself later. i have seen this before.

my issue is not cyano. my issue is the lack of nitrate.

 

[snowmansnow]

Beaslebob????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[russ-iv]

SnowManSnow;1042834 wrote: Beaslebob????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

idk what that means lol

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Russ-IV;1042832 wrote: ok so... bare with me because im sure ill be branded a heretic.

what do you think skimmate is? there was an article on live aquaria about it but it fit my hypothesis. it isnt all that oil slick you see at the top of your aquarium. it is non discriminate. your oil slick is not "green poo" either. you are sucking up everything. phyto, excrements, copepods, bristle worms... everything. its just science.

copepods and amphipods need some sort of phyto as do a number of corals and other life. imho it is most aggressive with the lowest form of life. eg phyto. once phyto is out, copepods and other inverts hve to rely on macro algae. turf algae, etc. your cuc cleans up a majority of this. but you killed the first line in the food chain. copepods and amphipods die in dt while they thrive in the fuge just to be sucked up later in the dt. they eat diatoms, detritus etc but you cut off their main food source to thrive.

not only that but you are sucking up trace elements that are replenished with wcs.

pick up any rock in your aquarium and let the powerhead blow it off. see all that trash in the water column? i dont have it. i have white heterotrophs attached in a stringy chain of clear gobs. quite different than the trash i saw before.

also cyano thrives on carbon dosing. we all have cyano. its just to what extent. atm im dealing with a new tank and itll still be around, just like everyone else. but it has to balance via mother nature.

by all means, dont change what you do because of what i am attempting. every system is different and if u have a huge bioload i dont see how the micro and nano fauna will adapt.

commence the burning.

So by not running a skimmer phyto thrives feeding pods and allowing other organisms to thrive. But how does running a skimmer cause junk to build up in the rocks vs not running the skimmer? I've always heard a skimmer won't pull out living organisms.

 

[russ-iv]

LSU_fishFan;1042837 wrote: So by not running a skimmer phyto thrives feeding pods and allowing other organisms to thrive. But how does running a skimmer cause junk to build up in the rocks vs not running the skimmer? I've always heard a skimmer won't pull out living organisms.

lol.

from whom?

just take your skimmate and throw it in a 5 or 10 gallon aquarium. you'll see all sorts of life

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Russ-IV;1042838 wrote: lol.

from whom?

Can't remember his name, but I believe he grows phyto and pods locally for a few of our sponsors

 

[russ-iv]

LSU_fishFan;1042839 wrote: Can't remember his name, but I believe he grows phyto and pods locally for a few of our sponsors

well... ill say this.

take your skimmate. package it. and send it to UGA.

its got life.

and everyone who has a skimmer will agree, they caught something living in their mechanical filtration.

skimmers do not collect dead stuff only.

anyway. that is why i was hoping for a lil advice if someone was ulns or had a silver bullet to tackle what im facing

 

[sn4k33y3z]

If your issue is lack of nitrate, then why not either increase your bio-load by adding fish or feeding more? Am I missing something?

 

[russ-iv]

Sn4k33y3z;1042841 wrote: If your issue is lack of nitrate, then why not either increase your bio-load by adding fish or feeding more? Am I missing something?

ive been feeding every other day cyclopeze and oyster feast. it held steady .5 ppm nitrate but im losing it again.

i can add another fish, however i am hesitant on what fish to add. i have....

2 mandarin dragonets
1 yellow tang
1 regal tang
1 melenarus wrasse
1 watchman goby

i am all for options considering they are very reef safe.

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Russ-IV;1042842 wrote: ive been feeding every other day cyclopeze and oyster feast. it held steady .5 ppm nitrate but im losing it again.

i can add another fish, however i am hesitant on what fish to add. i have....

2 mandarin dragonets
1 yellow tang
1 regal tang
1 melenarus wrasse
1 watchman goby

i am all for options considering they are very reef safe.

How about a pair of clowns?

 

[russ-iv]

LSU_fishFan;1042843 wrote: How about a pair of clowns?

wife would love that but without an anemone or some lps to entertain, they just go against the current of some kind swimming by themselves.

im considering a cbb again but that means my fan and coco worms die. (my love for the cbb)

maybe just talk to rit about my new pinecone fish lol im kidding

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Russ-IV;1042846 wrote: wife would love that but without an anemone or some lps to entertain, they just go against the current of some kind swimming by themselves.

im considering a cbb again but that means my fan and coco worms die. (**** my love for the cbb)

maybe just talk to rit about my new pinecone fish lol im kidding

A school of chromis is another option to add movement to the tank

 

[catgirl29]

Add another feeding day or two. Your fish will love it and your nitrates *will* go up.

 

[crew]

Sure, a skimmer removes life, but it doesn't target life. phyto, pods, etc don't cause a skimmer to foam... protein in the water column does. And yes, you are going to suck up some living organisms with a skimmer, but it will be a small minority of what is living in your tank.

Are cyclopeeze and oyster feast the only things you are feeding every other day? Why not feed daily and add something else to the mix? Personally, I feed my fish daily and sometimes twice a day a mix of Rods Food, PE Mysis, Formula pellets and cyclopeeze and then feed reef roids about twice a week.

 

[jennm]

JimmyStephens;1042823 wrote: Imo: I would just leave it all alone chemical/dosing wise and just let the tank run its course. I've seen more damage to tanks by chasing numbers. If cyno is the problem may be cut back on the hours or intensity of the leds.

This.

You can tinker a tank right to death.

 

[russ-iv]

Catgirl29;1042857 wrote: Add another feeding day or two. Your fish will love it and your nitrates *will* go up.

i feed fish TWICE a day

JennM;1042864 wrote: This.

You can tinker a tank right to death.

yeah ive done it before.

ive decided to remove a few lbs of live rock rather than look for a dosing solution

Crew;1042858 wrote: Sure, a skimmer removes life, but it doesn't target life. phyto, pods, etc don't cause a skimmer to foam... protein in the water column does. And yes, you are going to suck up some living organisms with a skimmer, but it will be a small minority of what is living in your tank.

Are cyclopeeze and oyster feast the only things you are feeding every other day? Why not feed daily and add something else to the mix? Personally, I feed my fish daily and sometimes twice a day a mix of Rods Food, PE Mysis, Formula pellets and cyclopeeze and then feed reef roids about twice a week.

nah the fish get a cube of mysis morning and evening.
pellets ill do on weekends during lunch

corals are target fed every other day a mix of my nitrate factory AA, cyclops, micro, oyster feast. 50 ml