Vodka, Vinegar, Sugar (Carbon) Dosing info
- Thread starter ralph atl
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I'm not sure which thread you are refering to, but here is the one that Randy-Holmes decided to to just use Vodka:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557772">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557772</a>
and here is where he explains why:
[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587235">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587235</a>
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557772">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557772</a>
and here is where he explains why:
[IMG]http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587235">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587235</a>
Darn, I quickly read through the 1st link and now I have more questions.
I have about 140 net gallons, have been running this:
~8 Tbsp of GFO changed every 4 weeks
~4-6 cups GAC
-3ml VSV (at GBD reccommended mix) TWICE daily (6ml total) stabil at this dose for 2 months
-Weekly 10% WC
~10 gal fuge with cheato harvested biweekly
SG 1.025, Mag 1450, CA 500, KH 9, PH ~8.1
All runs on a CA reactor, ATO with nielsen(kalk) ad MSX 300 skimmer rated at like 200 gallons at a heavy bioload (HUGE)
All parameters look good, According to elos N's and Ps undetectable. My par seems suitable, 500+ for most sps. YET, some still have not colored up, and still remain rusty or brownish. They perhaps hav lightened a little, but no real color improvement. Just light brown.
Some have improved a lot though, and some even look slightly pale (but not pastel).
I do not dose any supplements except for biodigest every 2 weeks.
I have vitamin C that I occasionally add to food, but maybe only one a week.
Any recommendations on adjustments or things to try? I have considered Potassium, but really dont think I need it with my water changes.
BTW, I dropped sugar this morning, gonna try 90/10 Vodka/Vinegar5%
I have about 140 net gallons, have been running this:
~8 Tbsp of GFO changed every 4 weeks
~4-6 cups GAC
-3ml VSV (at GBD reccommended mix) TWICE daily (6ml total) stabil at this dose for 2 months
-Weekly 10% WC
~10 gal fuge with cheato harvested biweekly
SG 1.025, Mag 1450, CA 500, KH 9, PH ~8.1
All runs on a CA reactor, ATO with nielsen(kalk) ad MSX 300 skimmer rated at like 200 gallons at a heavy bioload (HUGE)
All parameters look good, According to elos N's and Ps undetectable. My par seems suitable, 500+ for most sps. YET, some still have not colored up, and still remain rusty or brownish. They perhaps hav lightened a little, but no real color improvement. Just light brown.
Some have improved a lot though, and some even look slightly pale (but not pastel).
I do not dose any supplements except for biodigest every 2 weeks.
I have vitamin C that I occasionally add to food, but maybe only one a week.
Any recommendations on adjustments or things to try? I have considered Potassium, but really dont think I need it with my water changes.
BTW, I dropped sugar this morning, gonna try 90/10 Vodka/Vinegar5%
When you say 90/10 vokda you mean 90% vodka 10% water?
I never used any water in mine.
Anyway after thinking about it for a while I think I am going to stick with my Elos pro skimmer and omegas. I started using these on the new tank, and cannot detect nitrates (salifert) and cannot detect phosphates(Hach colorwheel).
I am running about 1/3 a reactor full of GFO, a small amount of GAC in a filter bag next to my skimmers output, and a small DSB with 2 types of chaeto, and culpra. Also using an Elos NS1000 skimmer which is huge for my small 90G of water volume.
The Elos stuff is expensive, but it's been working so I just can't justify starting vodka again.
Also keep in mind the tank has only been running for a little less than two months. But I do feed alot, and have like 10 fish in there. I feed 2 cubes of food with garlic and selcon, and a huge piece of nori.
I never used any water in mine.
Anyway after thinking about it for a while I think I am going to stick with my Elos pro skimmer and omegas. I started using these on the new tank, and cannot detect nitrates (salifert) and cannot detect phosphates(Hach colorwheel).
I am running about 1/3 a reactor full of GFO, a small amount of GAC in a filter bag next to my skimmers output, and a small DSB with 2 types of chaeto, and culpra. Also using an Elos NS1000 skimmer which is huge for my small 90G of water volume.
The Elos stuff is expensive, but it's been working so I just can't justify starting vodka again.
Also keep in mind the tank has only been running for a little less than two months. But I do feed alot, and have like 10 fish in there. I feed 2 cubes of food with garlic and selcon, and a huge piece of nori.
Ah, sorry, I meant 90% Vodka (40 Proof), 10% Vinegar (5% Concentration)
I also forgot to add that I am running a sulfur denitrator. My water should be hella clean. Maybe too clean :/
I am afraid to start the elos omegas. If my colors were all pale and pastel, and I wanted to darken them, i would immediatly start with Omegas. But that is not the case. There are some corals that are still brownish, which makes me think maybe a nutrient or light issue. I'm not sure, but I would think lights are ample. Nutrients read low, so either something is</em> there that shouldnt</em> be, or something isnt</em> there that should</em> be.
I feed 1 cube mysis, 1 cube brine, 1 cube plankton daily.
Do you dose ANYTHINg other than the Elos omegas? What is your coral load like, and how do they look?
I also forgot to add that I am running a sulfur denitrator. My water should be hella clean. Maybe too clean :/
I am afraid to start the elos omegas. If my colors were all pale and pastel, and I wanted to darken them, i would immediatly start with Omegas. But that is not the case. There are some corals that are still brownish, which makes me think maybe a nutrient or light issue. I'm not sure, but I would think lights are ample. Nutrients read low, so either something is</em> there that shouldnt</em> be, or something isnt</em> there that should</em> be.
I feed 1 cube mysis, 1 cube brine, 1 cube plankton daily.
Do you dose ANYTHINg other than the Elos omegas? What is your coral load like, and how do they look?
I just dose biodigest every two weeks other than that nothing.
I have noticed since the move and since starting the omegas and pro skimm that all my corals have darkened a little. But the growth has finally started about 2 weeks ago.
I attribute the lack of growth from the move and new tank, but now they all are steady.
The one coral that has just looked amazing since omegas is my orange digita. This thing is DARK orange and has really nice polyp extension.
Polyp extension has been noticably better since starting this also.
One other thing I noticed is how fast my zoanthids have grown. I had one polyp of this green and orange zoa that hitch hiked on another coral that I had for over a year and a half that NEVER grew or anything. Now I have about 10 heads. Could be coincidental, but I doubt it.
Also my Lava Flows that are supposedly slow growers have trippled in population in the last month and a half.
My coral load is relativly low though. I only have 6-7 different species of SPS, two of which are colonies. My hyndophora is HUGE, and growing, but at a slow rate.
Honestly its hard to say if the Elos stuff is what is causing this. I moved from one tank to another to better lighting, more flow, better skimming you get the hint. It could be that the new tank is just a better habitat. But everything looks so nice I don't want to stop Elos!
I have noticed since the move and since starting the omegas and pro skimm that all my corals have darkened a little. But the growth has finally started about 2 weeks ago.
I attribute the lack of growth from the move and new tank, but now they all are steady.
The one coral that has just looked amazing since omegas is my orange digita. This thing is DARK orange and has really nice polyp extension.
Polyp extension has been noticably better since starting this also.
One other thing I noticed is how fast my zoanthids have grown. I had one polyp of this green and orange zoa that hitch hiked on another coral that I had for over a year and a half that NEVER grew or anything. Now I have about 10 heads. Could be coincidental, but I doubt it.
Also my Lava Flows that are supposedly slow growers have trippled in population in the last month and a half.
My coral load is relativly low though. I only have 6-7 different species of SPS, two of which are colonies. My hyndophora is HUGE, and growing, but at a slow rate.
Honestly its hard to say if the Elos stuff is what is causing this. I moved from one tank to another to better lighting, more flow, better skimming you get the hint. It could be that the new tank is just a better habitat. But everything looks so nice I don't want to stop Elos!
Ok, I see, it is like Seachem Fuel. Carb supplement.
So just to be clear, do you use Pro Skim and Omegas, or are you calling them the same thing? The Elos product I have is the straight omegas. I havent tried it yet, but it supposedly is good stuff. Maybe I should give it a shot for a month or two.
How much are you dosing and what is your new water volume? I think I trashed teh box and instructions...dummy.
So just to be clear, do you use Pro Skim and Omegas, or are you calling them the same thing? The Elos product I have is the straight omegas. I havent tried it yet, but it supposedly is good stuff. Maybe I should give it a shot for a month or two.
How much are you dosing and what is your new water volume? I think I trashed teh box and instructions...dummy.
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I use Omega 1 (amino acids) from Elos. I have yet to try pro skim, but I am researching it again. About a year ago, I decided against it for one reason or another. I was trying to see if just the amino would do the trick. Pro-Skim is recommended by elos to use with Omega, but I want some other validity first..........................sorry, I'm rambling! I'm checking it out currently!
<span style="font-family: Arial Black"><span style="font-size: 13px">I am trying to decipher this study that I have attached in pdf. I might need some help from a biologist, chemist, whatever.</span> </span>
<span style="font-family: Arial Black"><span style="font-size: 13px">I am trying to decipher this study that I have attached in pdf. I might need some help from a biologist, chemist, whatever.</span> </span>
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This QUOTE from Tatu has really made some things very clear to me:
"No reefbuilding coral needs inorganic nitrogen (nitrate) in water column in concentrations measurable by a hobbyist. This is easy to see if one studies inorganic nitrogen levels in nature.
All reefbuilding corals need nitrogen to grow, however. This nitrogen comes mostly from feeding, anything from dissolved organic matter up to zooplankton."</em>
__________________
Tatu Vaajalahti
Tampere, Finland
"No reefbuilding coral needs inorganic nitrogen (nitrate) in water column in concentrations measurable by a hobbyist. This is easy to see if one studies inorganic nitrogen levels in nature.
All reefbuilding corals need nitrogen to grow, however. This nitrogen comes mostly from feeding, anything from dissolved organic matter up to zooplankton."</em>
__________________
Tatu Vaajalahti
Tampere, Finland
Yeah 90g of estimated water volume with sump. I have alot of live rock.
Honestly I wish there is more info out there on the pro skimmer. I have been asking what is in it on the elos forum on rc. It says it's a carbon source that helps with DOCs in the water, but other than that not much info. It's clear like vodka but has almost no smell. It does leave some sugar looking crystals on the bottle if it dried up... Doesn't say much but that's all I have observed from using it.
Honestly I wish there is more info out there on the pro skimmer. I have been asking what is in it on the elos forum on rc. It says it's a carbon source that helps with DOCs in the water, but other than that not much info. It's clear like vodka but has almost no smell. It does leave some sugar looking crystals on the bottle if it dried up... Doesn't say much but that's all I have observed from using it.
All it says is
"ELOS Pro Skimmer is a complex carbohydrate formula...which provide an immediate source of energy for cellular resperationas well as an important energy source..."
Basically is says NOTHING! And that makes me mad. I have seen good results, but I want to know why!
"ELOS Pro Skimmer is a complex carbohydrate formula...which provide an immediate source of energy for cellular resperationas well as an important energy source..."
Basically is says NOTHING! And that makes me mad. I have seen good results, but I want to know why!
Complex carbs... Not sure of the context. Complex in human nutrition terms would rule out glucose and dextrose, maybe maltodexrin, etc.. But as far as coral food, its probably a whole different game. I'm betting it is just a blend of carbon sources, or maybe exclusively sugar types like glucose.
How many drops of Pro Skim do you add daily?
Have you tasted it? I'm not saying you should, but honestly I would. I have undoubtably had worse chems in my mouth. If it is sweet,...:tongue:.
I am gonna try to get to the nutrition store soon. I have seen dextrose and maybe even glucose in some of them. It is used in working out/lifting for energy and muscle recovery aid, since it can almost immediatly enter the blood stream. It would make sense that this is the best sugar to use in an aquarium since it is among the simplest sugars there is, and has fewer binding/contaminanting elements. I dont even know what all is in table sugar...
How many drops of Pro Skim do you add daily?
Have you tasted it? I'm not saying you should, but honestly I would. I have undoubtably had worse chems in my mouth. If it is sweet,...:tongue:.
I am gonna try to get to the nutrition store soon. I have seen dextrose and maybe even glucose in some of them. It is used in working out/lifting for energy and muscle recovery aid, since it can almost immediatly enter the blood stream. It would make sense that this is the best sugar to use in an aquarium since it is among the simplest sugars there is, and has fewer binding/contaminanting elements. I dont even know what all is in table sugar...
