Fish Store More closing sale

[stroid]

I personally have had both good and bad experiences at CBA and at FS&M (has almost always been bad). I have always felt that FS&M doesnt care about my purchase unless I was spending several hundred dollars. Not to sound very negative but them leaving doesnt bother me at all and in some sense relieves me because others wont be getting ripped off anymore. In respects to the bickering earlier in this thread I dont think we need to be "so kind" to our LFS because lets be honest if you are buying a overpriced $29 zoa frag then you were just had. Another thing is some of the dry goods are way overpriced like said earlier a mj1200 should not be $40 thats just nuts. You can flame me all you want but the only store that has ever tried to tell me the right thing besides buy my expensive coral is Petland Alph. The blonde lady at CBA is super sweet

 

[sprayin70]

It is very sad to see quality LFS' close. I have spent many hours talking with Bobby at CBA and I will continue to support them. If 2 nice LFS' go out of business' then this may be an indacator that one day we may not be able to cruise over to a LFS we we feel like it. I as most others don't have infinate cash to spend on stuff so I cut costs where I can. I also love nice colorful corals when I can buy from a LFS that sells CLOSE to what online sells for then I will buy at a LFS. Anyway you look at it a "rare" coral will cost as much local as online. IE a Dendro. I have seen them from 100.00 to 90.00 per polyp. I would love to buy on one day, if I do then CBA is the place for me. They have them for 90.00 per polyp. Online sells for 100.00 per plus shipping. Lets support LFS' when we can.

 

[kwl1763]

I agree it's sad but this is not something that shouldn't be expected or neccessarily a bad thing. Countless other industries have gone through it.

Home depot klilled the local hardware store (we weren't willing to pay for the "sevice")

Amazon killed most corner bookstores we would nop onger pay for the instant gratification and could get the rar!

wal-mart killed the mom and pop general store

Same with the LFS. We'll always have some but I bet you they become bigger and few and far between. We simply aren't willing to pay for the service part.

Take myself. I don't have a LFS within a 30-45 minute drive for me. Even if I could find things for the same as online is it worth my time to drive all the way out there. For livestock I would much prefer to look one over at the store but if it is significantly more expensive and I don't get a two -week alive promise how can that compete? I personally won't pay for the "service" of a LFS, some will but with the proliferation of the internet and the great wealth of information (unfortunatly not all good) that knowledge is less and less valuable.

Only option is to build scale (get really big) or become a niche player (CB is in the SPS market)

Not saying I won't miss FS&M it was one of my favorites and I will miss it dearly but you can't ignore the macro economics at work here.

 

[stroid]

leveldrummer;84728 wrote: its sad to see them close, but i feel its far to often i go in any one of the lfs of atlanta, and feel they are trying to get away with robbery, and that goes for ANY store. ive seen live stock lists, and dry goods lists from many suppliers, and im sure many of you have too, buying a flame angel for 5 bucks, and slapping a 60$ price on it seems just a little excessive to me, i understand there is alot of over head going into these stores, they have people and bills to pay, but still, i think if one store would drop their prices, they could move much more goods and get a much better customer relationship. i dont see how stores are complaining about etailers, when some of them are trying to become etailers themselves. and their prices have gone way up while they work on that. i dont see how a store can buy an acro for 6-15$ frag it into 20 pieces, let them encrust, and then sell them for 60-80$ each. does that seem fair?

Agreed!!!!!!

 

[kevin]

It is very sad to see a long-standing LFS shut its doors. I definately believe in supporting the LFS because the advice you get is very valuable

 

[zanski]

Stroid;84710 wrote: I personally have had both good and bad experiences at CBA and at FS&M (has almost always been bad). I have always felt that FS&M doesnt care about my purchase unless I was spending several hundred dollars. Not to sound very negative but them leaving doesnt bother me at all and in some sense relieves me because others wont be getting ripped off anymore. In respects to the bickering earlier in this thread I dont think we need to be "so kind" to our LFS because lets be honest if you are buying a overpriced $29 zoa frag then you were just had. Another thing is some of the dry goods are way overpriced like said earlier a mj1200 should not be $40 thats just nuts. You can flame me all you want but the only store that has ever tried to tell me the right thing besides buy my expensive coral is Petland Alph. The blonde lady at CBA is super sweet

Bin


its sad to see them close, but i feel its far to often i go in any one of the lfs of atlanta, and feel they are trying to get away with robbery, and that goes for ANY store. ive seen live stock lists, and dry goods lists from many suppliers, and im sure many of you have too, buying a flame angel for 5 bucks, and slapping a 60$ price on it seems just a little excessive to me, i understand there is alot of over head going into these stores, they have people and bills to pay, but still, i think if one store would drop their prices, they could move much more goods and get a much better customer relationship. i dont see how stores are complaining about etailers, when some of them are trying to become etailers themselves. and their prices have gone way up while they work on that. i dont see how a store can buy an acro for 6-15$ frag it into 20 pieces, let them encrust, and then sell them for 60-80$ each. does that seem fair?

go!!

 

[stroid]

Kevin;84730 wrote: It is very sad to see a long-standing LFS shut its doors. I definately believe in supporting the LFS because the advice you get is very valuable

I just have a hard time agreeing with that. I have seen so many situations that the LFS has sold people the wrong fish at high cost just to make a sale. Example being I was at a LFS that also sells FW fish he told a customer that he can add three more fish to his 20g tank. He had an oscar, a catfish, and a pleco already. Now is that valuable information...and this was the same person giving me advice on my SW tank lol. I definitly think the LFS is in it for a sale not giving good advice....and understandbly so its a business.

 

[zanski]

Stroid;84733 wrote: I just have a hard time agreeing with that. I have seen so many situations that the LFS has sold people the wrong fish at high cost just to make a sale. Example being I was at a LFS that also sells FW fish he told a customer that he can add three more fish to his 20g tank. He had an oscar, a catfish, and a pleco already. Now is that valuable information...and this was the same person giving me advice on my SW tank lol. I definitly think the LFS is in it for a sale not giving good advice....and understandbly so its a business.

:up:

 

[tnyga]

We all are in some type of industry...Dont you get that same "type" of advice when buying computers, auto service, clothes, doctors (healthcare)...I think you know what Im getting at...One bad apple shouldnt spoil the whole store, hospital, dealership etc. Just like all those other things you have to educate yourself before you buy, whether its a 1000.00 service on a car, should I get that operation or should I put that 30.00 fish in my tank...

Is it right? Probably not...but "Buyer Beware" and educate yourself before buying...

I know that was a rant and Im sorry...just my 2 cents and promise not to give anymore

 

[george]

Markup on consumer electronics is routinely 100% or more with brick and mortar stores approaching 200%. Movies and music are priced at a 30% premium over mail order and marked up who knows how much over cost. Computer supplies of all sorts are mail ordered at 30%-50% less than their brick and mortar counterparts (often from the online store of the retail establishment). If you shop in Home Depot or Lowes and have EVER bought anything like moulding (crown or shoe), wallboard, doors, windows, and general lumber of all types, you're paying in the neighborhood of 200% to 300% (and more in some cases) over what it costs those stores to buy the materials.

Why is a LFS, which has a much lower cash flow and capital pool as well as a more sporadic sales rate, held to such a higher standard for "competitive pricing"? Do those of you attacking CBA and/or LFS prices in general never frequent retail stores for any other consumer purchases?

Yes, it's often higher priced and I admit that some are egregiously so. You pay for the immediacy, ease of returns, and ability to WYSIWYG shop. That last one is particularly important because there are vanishingly few eTailers who have implemented that well and even those few that have it have nothing on actually seeing the specimen in person and at all angles. Even then, when it comes to motile livestock, there's no substitute for live observation. Then again, I bought a 1L bottle of Seachem Phosguard last week from a LFS. $20 - $2 + 1.08 tax = $19.08. From Marine Depot, it's $14 + $7 S&H = $21 and I have to wait 4 days for it to get here. Can you save mail order? Yes. Does it always pay? Not on small stuff. I'm not saying either is perfect, but there's a reason and a payoff in both cases.

Is there bad advice to be had at local LFS? Yep. There's bad advice to be had everywhere, folks, even on our beloved ARC website. There's also a lot of helpful customer service to be had and that's one of the things you're paying for.

I'm not advocating dropping every last dime on the LFS to the detriment of your bang-for-the-buck, but don't put them on some special standards list you don't hold for every other retail establishment.

 

[kappaknight]

Isn't CBA working towards e-tailing though? Whatever became of that? I agree the internet is changing the landscape of many businesses. In fact, even within web services, the trend is actually moving from paid services to free services. (Material goods are not a part of this)

1800Flowers changed the way mom-and-pop shops take orders via an online mega-store front; maybe something like that will happen in this hobby at some point...

 

[tsunami]

I just want to know what the prices are looking like. Have they dropped where it is worth a hours drive to check everything out? Can I buy a 4 inch purple fungia at 20 bucks (well, maybe not that good, but)? : ) Has anybody been and seen the 50% off stickers?

 

[zanski]

No one is attacking anyone, keep in mind this is all about opinions.

 

[george]

Tsunami;84741 wrote: I just want to know what the prices are looking like. Have they dropped where it is worth a hours drive to check everything out? Can I buy a 4 inch purple fungia at 20 bucks (well, maybe not that good, but)? : ) Has anybody been and seen the 50% off stickers?

I couldn't agree more with you. I don't argue that anyone should burn $50 worth of gas on an unknown browsing of the stores. Nor am I arguing that anyone has any obligation to patronize their LFS.

My comments are more directed at those that live relatively on top of these LFS and deride the LFS for having higher prices than mail order, but not any worse than any other retail margin vs. mail order. Now that said, I also won't argue that I have seen absurd pricing in some LFS from time to time that really does make me scratch my head such as the 1 1/2" version of the fish priced the same as the 3" version as the 5" version and the only one that's what I'd call fairly priced is the 5" one.

 

[scsinet]

aquazoa;84747 wrote: And thank you Margi and Steve, Kevin, Jesse, and everyone I didn't mention......
Let me say also how very dire the availability of wild caught marinelife is getting and if you think some of the LFS store prices are high now wait a couple more decades and see if you will even be able to walk into a store and see some of these species if they are available at all they will be astronomical. I for one would not hesitate to pay top dollar for a healthy specimen free of disease that has been held in a system for observation weeks prior to purchase. Buying cheap often risks introducing Amyloodinium into your tank!

It's funny you mention the top dollar for specimens thing, because one of the things I always liked about FS&M is the way they labeled each tank with the date that stuff came in, so you knew whether you were buying something that just came in or had been there a while.

 

[dannybradley]

leveldrummer;84728 wrote: ive seen live stock lists, and dry goods lists from many suppliers, and im sure many of you have too, buying a flame angel for 5 bucks, and slapping a 60$ price on it..

Leveldrummer. You have no clue what a flame angel costs a store. It is significantly higher than $5. Don't attempt an example unless you've spent significant time working in a retail fish store.

LFS provide so much more than an online merchant. When I was running Petland - Dunwoody I ran thousands, no exaggeration there, upon thousands of water tests, more accuratly than most people would ever think to, free of charge. Petland - Dunwoody picked up the tab for that one. I can't tell you how many customers I turned away without fish because their water was not up to my standard. I, in all cases I could manage, did everything in my power to support the customer's tank. It was never about the bottom line for me, It was about the success of your tanks.

Don't anyone dare to say a LFS's margin aren't fair. I know what everything in those stores cost. I'd spend hundreds of dollars a week having shipments flown in. And do you think those boxes and styros are free? HA! We get nickel and dimed by the wholesalers at every turn. We're on the front line of fish shipments and the most we get is a live arrival guarantee on SOME items. That fish, that doesn't have have to endure shipping to you and has been quarentened by us helps subsidize some of the losses we have to endure in shipping. There is never a guarantee on live arrival of coral or inverts. No online store can come close to providing the service a good LFS can. How is it fair to us when customers come in to ask an hour of our time for answers only so they can make a better decision about buying something for a lower price online. That conversation costs the store money.

People that shout about prices need to learn the difference between value and price. Value is everything that is backed by the price; employee knowledge, return policy, conveinence, etc.. Price is that number on the tag. In many cases the Maxijet 1200 for $39.99 has more value than the one for $14.99.

The only good thing about A Fish Store and More closing is that Ron over at Petland - Dunwoody can use the help. My biggest regret about quiting and leaving him in charge over there is not having the time to teach him more about running that fish room.

If you're broke, I can see the need to make your dollars stretch further. But if you can spare it, head over the the LFS, browse the selection, and if something catches your eye, buy it there, not online. The fact that you can kill an hour or two playing around in a fish store is invaluble.

 

[stroid]

DannyBradley;84760 wrote: I can't tell you how many customers I turned away without fish because their water was not up to my standard.

Not to make a stab at your old store but the example I made above about the FW fish was from Petland-Dunwoody and it was one of the managers giving the advice and then proceeded to sell 3 more fish. (this was after you left)

 

[dannybradley]

If I had caught someone doing that, even after I quit, I would have stepped in, and then torn their head off after the customer left. I refused to carry any dyed, injected, hormone treated, phosphate treated, tattood fish, or Pacus. If it didn't have a place in existence or a in tank, I would not stock it. The only exceptions were modified fish that did not affect the well being of the organism i.e. Flower Horns, blood parrots (non treated), Glo-fish. I would even rebag fish if I didn't see it done right.

Oh, and ask sometime to see a LFS's water or power bill. Put on a pair of depends if they decide to hand it to you. I was doing 40% biweekly water changes on 4 800g f/w systems and 1 675g f/w system and had a 200gpd R/O unit that never stopped running because of the weekly water changes on 4 400g s/w systems, 1 150g s/w system, and 1 37g s/w/ tank. Come to think of it, I probably had something to do with the drought we're having now. If I did an average of 10 individual water tests a day at Petland it comes out to 21,900 individual tests during my 6 years. The vast majority of them being liquid reagent. Let's not forget how many hydrometers we tested against a calibrated refractometer for customers that were wasting money on salt and stressing out their inverts. The average reading of a hydrometer was .004 points lower than a refractometer.

 

[megadeth]

sad to see a good store go

I spend all my coral money at the local stores, I like to see what I'm putting in my tank, I've never mail ordered a coral, just dont want to deal with shipping etc etc

I do mail order dry goods, but the markups on that, I think the LFS's expect everyone to mail order

 

[zanski]

DannyBradley;84768 wrote: If I had caught someone doing that, even after I quit, I would have stepped in, and then torn their head off after the customer left. I refused to carry any dyed, injected, hormone treated, tattood fish, or Pacus. If it didn't have a place in existence or a in tank, I would not stock it. The only exceptions were modified fish that did not affect the well being of the organism i.e. Flower Horns, blood parrots (non treated), Glo-fish. I would even rebag fish if I didn't see it done right.

Oh, and ask sometime to see a LFS's water or power bill.

You right Online stores dont use water or power keep their things alive, They just throw them on the shelves and hope! Im glad to hear that when I pay 40 bucks for a Ph that $25 of it goes to the water and power bills lol!