Heeeeelllllpppppp with No3 and Phos

[1mbrews8]

Progress


Three types of media used


Strung up using stainless steel wire, leveled and hoping for a little bit of luck



Where the water first comes in side



Exits out this side

 

[lmm1967]

The balancing act will come with flow - you want it as absolutely slow as possible while maintaining a barley steady stream on the output side.

Too slow - and once it starts working - your house (yes the ENTIRE house) will smell worse than your skimmate. And yes - I know that from experience.

When testing NO3 in your tank - run 2 tests. One of tank water - and one from the output side of this - once it kicks in - the output side will be significantly lower than the tank water. That's when you'll know it's doing it's thing.

 

[1mbrews8]

The balancing act will come with flow - you want it as absolutely slow as possible while maintaining a barley steady stream on the output side.

Too slow - and once it starts working - your house (yes the ENTIRE house) will smell worse than your skimmate. And yes - I know that from experience.

When testing NO3 in your tank - run 2 tests. One of tank water - and one from the output side of this - once it kicks in - the output side will be significantly lower than the tank water. That's when you'll know it's doing it's thing.

Yep. I had to go to work so just have it running with just regular water in it for now. When I get back I’ll read up on exactly what to do, but I know I bought some of the bacteria to put in first for like five days , and then start vodka on day 3 I think

 

[lmm1967]

I seeded mine with small rocks from my tank and a tablespoon or so of sand.

I hand dosed 10 ml (I think) of a carbon source daily for the first couple weeks. Then I used a doser to do 2 ml at a time every 4 hours.

Honestly - once it was up and running and had been functioning well for a month (zero NO3 on the output side) I found I no longer needed to provide a carbon source and I stopped dosing. It kept working so well that I eventually had to take it offline because my NO3/PO4 were not measurable in the tank at all.

 

[FutureInterest]

So I had like 600 nitrates at one point in one of my tanks lol. So don't stress about it being at 100, almost everything lived. The first to go though were the birdsnest and stylos which are like the canary in the mine. Other than that I only really lost some minor acans. The birdsnest definitely let you know when something is a bit off before most other corals and if you have them and they are extended your nitrates aren't at toxic levels quite yet .

Also get your nitrate numbers double checked. My high lvl was due to a bad test kit... so you never know.

 

[1mbrews8]

So I had like 600 nitrates at one point in one of my tanks lol. So don't stress about it being at 100, almost everything lived. The first to go though were the birdsnest and stylos which are like the canary in the mine. Other than that I only really lost some minor acans. The birdsnest definitely let you know when something is a bit off before most other corals and if you have them and they are extended your nitrates aren't at toxic levels quite yet .

Also get your nitrate numbers double checked. My high lvl was due to a bad test kit... so you never know.

600!??! wow, lol! I feel better )

Hope all is well!

I'll get another test kit asap, but pretty sure it is right since I had a few old ones left I used before this new kit..

thanks!

 

[1mbrews8]

OK, so today I added my first around 5 mL of bacteria and put the tops on.

I have the flow said extremely low, but it kind of comes out and then stops. And comes out. And then stops.

I’m not sure if it’s some kind of siphon affect, or what is going on. I’ll let it sit for about an hour to make sure everything is even out and then check again

 

[1mbrews8]

To try to explain further, I have the half-inch tubing going in, and the same going out, except about an inch lower on the other side.


But I did plug in some extra airline tubing that I had to try to stop the oxygen from going back in there just in case?

 

[ActiveAngel]

link is earlier in the thread, but a nitrate reducer/eliminator )

I’m lost too, but that’s very exciting! I’ve heard claims about people building nitrate reducers, but the chemistry doesn’t make feasible sense to me (unless using algae or similar organism that can be manually collected).

If I’m correct in my understanding, may I ask; How do you create an anoxic environment, and then reoxygenate your water before it reaches back to your tank? Is the process energetically expensive; and how much O2 does it consume? I’d love to see it in person and chat in depth after it’s up and running!

 

[1mbrews8]

I’m lost too, but that’s very exciting! I’ve heard claims about people building nitrate reducers, but the chemistry doesn’t make feasible sense to me (unless using algae or similar organism that can be manually collected).

If I’m correct in my understanding, may I ask; How do you create an anoxic environment, and then reoxygenate your water before it reaches back to your tank? Is the process energetically expensive; and how much O2 does it consume? I’d love to see it in person and chat in depth after it’s up and running!

heck if I know (above my mental pay grade lol), but trying it )

I read this almost whole thing and it was KINDA making sense by the end.. check it out!

Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

Hello fellow reefers!. I have been in the hobby for more than 3 years, the first 2 years was tough. Cyno, diatom, nuisance algae, high NO3 (120ppm at one time) and ich/velvet. I have tried several nutrient control method (poor man, so most of it were DIY project). GFO, water fall scrubber...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ActiveAngel]

Lol, sounds good! I will check it out

 

[ichthyoid]

FWIW-
For anaerobic bacterial nitrate reduction to work sustainably, there must be organic carbon present to act as an electron donor (think food source).

The nitrate molecule (NO3) acts as an electron acceptor, providing it's oxygen to the bacteria and releasing nitrogen gas (N2) in the process.

I've used several carbon sources, and the most efficient is methanol, which I've run very effectively in a batch denitrification reactor.

There is some balancing required to get the flow & carbon ratio optimized. Start slowly & increase/change gradually is the best rule.

 

[lmm1967]

OK, so today I added my first around 5 mL of bacteria and put the tops on.

I have the flow said extremely low, but it kind of comes out and then stops. And comes out. And then stops.

I’m not sure if it’s some kind of siphon affect, or what is going on. I’ll let it sit for about an hour to make sure everything is even out and then check again

the flow is typically so slow it takes at least an hour to stabilize after any change

 

[lmm1967]

To try to explain further, I have the half-inch tubing going in, and the same going out, except about an inch lower on the other side.
View attachment 9462 View attachment 9463

But I did plug in some extra airline tubing that I had to try to stop the oxygen from going back in there just in case?

View attachment 9464

I used RO tubing for both inbound & outbound. You want to be able to keep flow very low without creating a way for O2 to get in.

 

[lmm1967]

I’m lost too, but that’s very exciting! I’ve heard claims about people building nitrate reducers, but the chemistry doesn’t make feasible sense to me (unless using algae or similar organism that can be manually collected).

If I’m correct in my understanding, may I ask; How do you create an anoxic environment, and then reoxygenate your water before it reaches back to your tank? Is the process energetically expensive; and how much O2 does it consume? I’d love to see it in person and chat in depth after it’s up and running!

the amount of water flowing through is so low you do not need to worry about re-oxygenating it.

 

[lmm1967]

FWIW-
For anaerobic bacterial nitrate reduction to work sustainably, there must be organic carbon present to act as an electron donor (think food source).

The nitrate molecule (NO3) acts as an electron acceptor, providing it's oxygen to the bacteria and releasing nitrogen gas (N2) in the process.

I've used several carbon sources, and the most efficient is methanol, which I've run very effectively in a batch denitrification reactor.

There is some balancing required to get the flow & carbon ratio optimized. Start slowly & increase/change gradually is the best rule.

You'll learn to tell if your balanced by the smell.

Smells like sulpher - flow too low
Smells like your carbon source - flow to fast (I used NoPOx which is easy to smell).
very little smell - IT'S WORKING

 

[1mbrews8]

Will check out flow again when I get home tonight. For now though my Monti that I got the other week is not looking good as of about two days ago, but Z/P are fine . :0(

ALK is 8.324
Mag and cal still good

 

[ActiveAngel]

Thanks guys! So after some additional investigating; it appears that nitrate, when converting to nitrogen gas, is a better electron accepter than oxygen. That would explain why the water doesn’t need to be re-oxygenated (also why our air is mostly nitrogen).

However, it’s curious why this requires such low flow. Perhaps this mitigates the possibility of the methanol reducing the oxygen into water once nitrate is out. I’ll definitely spend more time diving into this next week. Super good info! Thanks

 

[lmm1967]

Thanks guys! So after some additional investigating; it appears that nitrate, when converting to nitrogen gas, is a better electron accepter than oxygen. That would explain why the water doesn’t need to be re-oxygenated (also why our air is mostly nitrogen).

However, it’s curious why this requires such low flow. Perhaps this mitigates the possibility of the methanol reducing the oxygen into water once nitrate is out. I’ll definitely spend more time diving into this next week. Super good info! Thanks

Low flow keeps the O2 low enough in the second chamber.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Low flow keeps the O2 low enough in the second chamber.

Why is that necessary; Is it because nitrate is only a marginally better acceptor than oxygen? And how does the low flow keep the O2 low; what reactions are removing O2 before NO3?

Perhaps my understanding should be altered again. Maybe the methanol reacts with both the O2 and the NO3 approximately equally. If so, the lower flow would allow dissolved gasses across the rest of the system to diffuse towards equilibrium with the air; thereby avoiding depletion of O2 or a surplus of CO2. Is that it?