Vics CD 180G Peninsula

[slosti]

Getting excited, 1 more week to go to finish my 42 day fallow period. Fish are doing great in copper but I’m sure they’re ready to get out.

Also, picking up a bunch of fish next week once I move several of these into the display

Do you QT all your coral in a fishless system to ensure no ich or velvet is encrusted on it and then accidently transferred into your DT? I would hate to see the fallow period fail as a result of adding corals or inverts that could have something encrusted on them. I only mention this because it has happened to me in the past, with a snail. Now I QT anything that is wet before it goes in my system as I have way too much to lose (including Achilles, Gem, Sohal, Purple, and 5 other tangs).

 

[civics14]

Do you QT all your coral in a fishless system to ensure no ich or velvet is encrusted on it and then accidently transferred into your DT? I would hate to see the fallow period fail as a result of adding corals or inverts that could have something encrusted on them. I only mention this because it has happened to me in the past, with a snail. Now I QT anything that is wet before it goes in my system as I have way too much to lose (including Achilles, Gem, Sohal, Purple, and 5 other tangs).

I have not in the past but I do have a 5.5g lying around that I can easily set up for inverts. Good point.

Invert QT should even be easier.

Edit: I do have a separate system for corals already that I do QT.

 

[civics14]

Not reef related but my friend is the coffee buyer and we were looking at this.... WTF is artificial coffee??

 

[slosti]

I have not in the past but I do have a 5.5g lying around that I can easily set up for inverts. Good point.

Invert QT should even be easier.

Edit: I do have a separate system for corals already that I do QT.

Good deal. Yeah I unfortunately learned he hard way about needing to QT inverts and I'd hate to see you encounter more issues. Velvet sucks. My Achilles fought Ich, Velvet and Flukes in QT. I didnt think he would make it honestly, he did end up losing an eye to Flukes but has been healthy for years now.

 

[civics14]

Good deal. Yeah I unfortunately learned he hard way about needing to QT inverts and I'd hate to see you encounter more issues. Velvet sucks. My Achilles fought Ich, Velvet and Flukes in QT. I didnt think he would make it honestly, he did end up losing an eye to Flukes but has been healthy for years now.

damn!! all 3. That is crazy. Glad to hear he made it tho.

I'm picking up some fish from someone next week that even tho he states that he never introduced anything in several months, they're all going into QT with copper. Nothing is worth getting velvet.

But yeah, I haven't had to add any inverts in a while, so next round will def go thru QT.

For invert QT, what do you use? I was just thinking the small 5.5G with an air stone, a heater, and feed some pellets every now and then? I need to do some more research.

 

[slosti]

damn!! all 3. That is crazy. Glad to hear he made it tho.

I'm picking up some fish from someone next week that even tho he states that he never introduced anything in several months, they're all going into QT with copper. Nothing is worth getting velvet.

But yeah, I haven't had to add any inverts in a while, so next round will def go thru QT.

For invert QT, what do you use? I was just thinking the small 5.5G with an air stone, a heater, and feed some pellets every now and then? I need to do some more research.

I agree I would follow normal QT protocol with the new fish as they could be asymptomatic carriers. For people that dont want to QT with meds in cases like you described they could do a 30 day black molly QT. If you arent familiar you can read more about it here. (1) Black Molly Quarantine | HumbleFish Forum

For me I just use a 10 gallon tank for inverts only because that is what I have laying around 10's, 20L's, and 40's. I would like to pick up a 5g as the 10g is more than I really need. Shrimp are the easiest of inverts to QT because you only have to wait until they molt then you can transfer to the DT. Starfish and Urchins only require a rinse with DT water as they can not carry the encrusted stage.

If you havent been to the Humble fish forum here is a good post on Invert QT.

(1) Coral/Invert Quarantine Time Frames | HumbleFish Forum


Hope this info helps a little.

 

[slosti]

damn!! all 3. That is crazy. Glad to hear he made it tho.

Yeah it sucked. He went through Chloroquine Phosphate first, then general cure then Copper Power. Some how Velvet made it through the Chloroquine Phosphate treatment. I normally use Copper Power but wanted to use Chloroquine Phosphate as I was having difficulties getting him to eat and stay eating. Still till this day he is a very picky eater as he will only eat nori. No pellets, no frozen of any kind, and no mastik.

 

[civics14]

I agree I would follow normal QT protocol with the new fish as they could be asymptomatic carriers. For people that dont want to QT with meds in cases like you described they could do a 30 day black molly QT. If you arent familiar you can read more about it here. (1) Black Molly Quarantine | HumbleFish Forum

For me I just use a 10 gallon tank for inverts only because that is what I have laying around 10's, 20L's, and 40's. I would like to pick up a 5g as the 10g is more than I really need. Shrimp are the easiest of inverts to QT because you only have to wait until they molt then you can transfer to the DT. Starfish and Urchins only require a rinse with DT water as they can not carry the encrusted stage.

If you havent been to the Humble fish forum here is a good post on Invert QT.

(1) Coral/Invert Quarantine Time Frames | HumbleFish Forum


Hope this info helps a little.

Yeah, fully aware of the black molly test. Just don't have a place for the fish after the test so never messed with this idea. I use to follow the normal QT protocols just for observation, but at this point, I'm going straight into copper because I rather not risk it at all. I find copper power to be effective and not too harsh since it is chelated copper vs ionic copper like cupramine. I also do metroplex as well during the first 10 days since it is safe to use with copper.

Yeah it sucked. He went through Chloroquine Phosphate first, then general cure then Copper Power. Some how Velvet made it through the Chloroquine Phosphate treatment. I normally use Copper Power but wanted to use Chloroquine Phosphate as I was having difficulties getting him to eat and stay eating. Still till this day he is a very picky eater as he will only eat nori. No pellets, no frozen of any kind, and no mastik.

I never used chloroquine phosphate, not sure if there was a benefit to using that over copper power since they are both chelated copper. How long have you had your Achilles?

 

[slosti]

Yeah, fully aware of the black molly test. Just don't have a place for the fish after the test so never messed with this idea. I use to follow the normal QT protocols just for observation, but at this point, I'm going straight into copper because I rather not risk it at all. I find copper power to be effective and not too harsh since it is chelated copper vs ionic copper like cupramine. I also do metroplex as well during the first 10 days since it is safe to use with copper.


I never used chloroquine phosphate, not sure if there was a benefit to using that over copper power since they are both chelated copper. How long have you had your Achilles?

Molly's are good for fuges but yeah its not the most ideal way of doing things. I also prefer Copper Power over any of the Ionic coppers.

Not sure if you made a mistake about Chloroquine Phosphate being copper but here is a little more about it below. Honestly I only use it in a pinch now.

Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is an antimalarial drug for humans which also treats external parasites that afflict marine fish (and possibly freshwater fish as well.) However, there are a few challenges to overcome with CP. The very first is obtaining it because a prescription is usually required to buy pharmaceutical-grade CP

I've had the Achilles for 3 years now. His name is Zeus although Cyclops would fit him better. My Sohal is the boss of the tank but the Achilles does put him in check. The Achilles is the only one who can boss the Sohal around although the Sohal controls the tangs.

 

[slosti]

Here is one of the better pictures of my Achilles when he was in my fuge waiting to go into my newest tank (1.5 years ago). This is his bad side (no eye, its just flat now).

 

[Adam]

I see no reason why Inverts can't be QT'd in the coral QT as long as you've followed the time line correctly. You could even throw a couple Mollies in there as an indicator. This topic is fresh on my mind lately with the upcoming investment in fish I'll have right around the corner.

 

[civics14]

More reefing woes... I had started a new job and I been putting in some long hours. I had my wife feed my hospital tanks since I been coming home very late. Well, as you can see from my previous post on Monday, Angels doing fine in the hospital tank. I was practically working all day Tuesday and Wednesday and didn't pay much attention to them during that time. I woke up Thursday morning and the fish were on its side breathing heavily. This is the crazy part, ammonia badge showed it was fine, but not sure if that's because it was already converted to nitrite at this point. Rushed and did a 100% water change. That seem to help as they were back upright the remainder of the day but still breathing heavily. Next morning, they were dead.

In my haste, I didn't get to test the water for nitrites, but from the description of laying down, breathing heavily, and later I inspected the brown gills - I assume it was nitrite poisoning. My wife said she didn't go too crazy in feed, which I believe her, so I'm not sure. They were only a week away from going into the display. Just heart breaking.

Other Hospital tank with anthias and purple tang was fine. With my week's schedule I went ahead and moved the Purple and the Anthias to the display, 40 days fallow from the recommended 42.. I assessed the risk with me being so busy during the week and don't want to risk what happened to the angels and moved them over.

Going forward, I'll focus on a single fish at a time to make things easier, especially with my schedule.

 

[Adam]

More reefing woes... I had started a new job and I been putting in some long hours. I had my wife feed my hospital tanks since I been coming home very late. Well, as you can see from my previous post on Monday, Angels doing fine in the hospital tank. I was practically working all day Tuesday and Wednesday and didn't pay much attention to them during that time. I woke up Thursday morning and the fish were on its side breathing heavily. This is the crazy part, ammonia badge showed it was fine, but not sure if that's because it was already converted to nitrite at this point. Rushed and did a 100% water change. That seem to help as they were back upright the remainder of the day but still breathing heavily. Next morning, they were dead.

In my haste, I didn't get to test the water for nitrites, but from the description of laying down, breathing heavily, and later I inspected the brown gills - I assume it was nitrite poisoning. My wife said she didn't go too crazy in feed, which I believe her, so I'm not sure. They were only a week away from going into the display. Just heart breaking.

Other Hospital tank with anthias and purple tang was fine. With my week's schedule I went ahead and moved the Purple and the Anthias to the display, 40 days fallow from the recommended 42.. I assessed the risk with me being so busy during the week and don't want to risk what happened to the angels and moved them over.

Going forward, I'll focus on a single fish at a time to make things easier, especially with my schedule.

So sorry to hear that. Did you use Biospira or any other product to seed the tank?

When I've set up QT's I've always poured in some and kept more on hand. One time I the ammonia go up on a badge. Did a water change and added more bacteria. Even when I start up a QT with seeded matrix from the sump I add bacteria. I guess I've been lucky but the only fish I've lost in QT were the very 1st fish I got when I started. A couple of Cardinals got stuck to the intake of the HOB filter.

This is the first time I've heard of death due to possible nitrite gill burn. @gainesvillereef and I were even talking about this on Saturday and how he thought it would be very unlikely that fish would die from that. He told me that when tanks stall out in the cycle in the nitrite phase it's usually due to the lack of phosphate. The bacteria that do that conversion are dependent on PO4 and most new systems lack it, especially new dry rock systems where users have cleaned their rock the way I have. Dr Tim's Ammonia is just ammonium chloride. I didn't know this and I haven't seen it listed anywhere but he said the Brightwell's MicrōBacter QuikCycl contains some phosphate. I'll I've seen is what is stated on the bottle, "Professional Nutrients for Fishless Cycling & ..."

 

[civics14]

So sorry to hear that. Did you use Biospira or any other product to seed the tank?

When I've set up QT's I've always poured in some and kept more on hand. One time I the ammonia go up on a badge. Did a water change and added more bacteria. Even when I start up a QT with seeded matrix from the sump I add bacteria. I guess I've been lucky but the only fish I've lost in QT were the very 1st fish I got when I started. A couple of Cardinals got stuck to the intake of the HOB filter.

This is the first time I've heard of death due to possible nitrite gill burn. @gainesvillereef and I were even talking about this on Saturday and how he thought it would be very unlikely that fish would die from that. He told me that when tanks stall out in the cycle in the nitrite phase it's usually due to the lack of phosphate. The bacteria that do that conversion are dependent on PO4 and most new systems lack it, especially new dry rock systems where users have cleaned their rock the way I have. Dr Tim's Ammonia is just ammonium chloride. I didn't know this and I haven't seen it listed anywhere but he said the Brightwell's MicrōBacter QuikCycl contains some phosphate. I'll I've seen is what is stated on the bottle, "Professional Nutrients for Fishless Cycling & ..."

I use 4-5x Marine Pure Balls that is cycled in my 65G that I keep up and running (for almost a year now). I have about 50 or so balls that I keep cycled at a time. After each QT/hospital use, I soak in h2o2 and let it dry out for a week then back into the tank to grow bacteria.

I never heard of nitrite burn either until this cause I couldn't figure out what happened. Ammonia wasn't showing present, but that doesn't mean it didn't contribute to it cause I didn't even look at that tank for a little over 2 days and it could have been that the ammonia got converted over to Nitrite by the time I caught it Thursday morning. Again, this is pure assumption based on what I can gather. There was no signs of disease, they all ate and swim around fine for 2 weeks already in there.

I'm at a loss to be honest.

However, it is a lesson learned and I had too many fish at one time going through QT & Copper. I been trying to get this tank going since the last hiccup that I'm slipping. I need to slow it down. Something I always tell other reefers that I need to take a step back and take my own advice!!!

Going forward, I am going to do 1 fish at a time. Current focus is an Achilles. Petco couldn't source a replacement for me, so they gave me a refund last week. So, I picked one up over the weekend that is in pretty tip top shape. Eats pellets right off the bat and since no visible signs of any disease (no scratching, no heavy breathing, no bumps, fin damage). So far, he's responding well to a slow increase in copper power and taking in medicated food (metro+focus) with no issues.

 

[Trizzino]

I use 4-5x Marine Pure Balls that is cycled in my 65G that I keep up and running (for almost a year now). I have about 50 or so balls that I keep cycled at a time. After each QT/hospital use, I soak in h2o2 and let it dry out for a week then back into the tank to grow bacteria.

I never heard of nitrite burn either until this cause I couldn't figure out what happened. Ammonia wasn't showing present, but that doesn't mean it didn't contribute to it cause I didn't even look at that tank for a little over 2 days and it could have been that the ammonia got converted over to Nitrite by the time I caught it Thursday morning. Again, this is pure assumption based on what I can gather. There was no signs of disease, they all ate and swim around fine for 2 weeks already in there.

I'm at a loss to be honest.

However, it is a lesson learned and I had too many fish at one time going through QT & Copper. I been trying to get this tank going since the last hiccup that I'm slipping. I need to slow it down. Something I always tell other reefers that I need to take a step back and take my own advice!!!

Going forward, I am going to do 1 fish at a time. Current focus is an Achilles. Petco couldn't source a replacement for me, so they gave me a refund last week. So, I picked one up over the weekend that is in pretty tip top shape. Eats pellets right off the bat and since no visible signs of any disease (no scratching, no heavy breathing, no bumps, fin damage). So far, he's responding well to a slow increase in copper power and taking in medicated food (metro+focus) with no issues.

Oooo Achilles are in my top 3 favorite fish. Always wanted one but already had a Powder Blue. He looks really healthy.

 

[Adam]

Even with the bio balls, I highly recommend getting a Seachem HOB filter for the QT/Hospital tank. I will be switching over to these in the near future because they look better than the Fluval's I'm using now. Both have baskets that can be loaded with Matrix. The 20L that I have running now was started up with a Fluval C3 HOB filter and I poured Biospira directly into the intake. There are four fish in there now for over a couple months. A Yellow tang, a Tomini Tang and a pair of clowns.

Seachem - Tidal Power Filters

www.seachem.com

Tidal 35 HOB Power Filter

TIDAL hang on filters are designed from the ground up to provide the aquarium with high-quality, easy to implement, comprehensive filtration. While having a system plumbed with an overflow and sump certainly has its advantages, this isn’t always practical. In some situations, space constraints...

www.marinedepot.com

 

[civics14]

Even with the bio balls, I highly recommend getting a Seachem HOB filter for the QT/Hospital tank. I will be switching over to these in the near future because they look better than the Fluval's I'm using now. Both have baskets that can be loaded with Matrix. The 20L that I have running now was started up with a Fluval C3 HOB filter and I poured Biospira directly into the intake. There are four fish in there now for over a couple months. A Yellow tang, a Tomini Tang and a pair of clowns.

Seachem - Tidal Power Filters

www.seachem.com

Tidal 35 HOB Power Filter

TIDAL hang on filters are designed from the ground up to provide the aquarium with high-quality, easy to implement, comprehensive filtration. While having a system plumbed with an overflow and sump certainly has its advantages, this isn’t always practical. In some situations, space constraints...

www.marinedepot.com

I don't use a Seachem HOB filter, any reason why over the marineland I'm already using? I can just toss some matrix in there that I can pull from my display tank. I have about 8L of it in my display.

 

[Adam]

I don't use a Seachem HOB filter, any reason why over the marineland I'm already using? I can just toss some matrix in there that I can pull from my display tank. I have about 8L of it in my display.

As long as whatever HOB filter you use has a spot to put some matrix. I haven't seen how much those hold but from what I can tell The Seachem one holds a decent amount. More matrix, more nitrifying bacteria.

 

[gainesvillereef]

According to Randy Holmes Farley, nitrite is not toxic to marine fish like it is to freshwater fish. The great amount of chlorine present in seawater outcompetes nitrite in the uptake mechanisms of the fish. Here is the article.

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium

After seeing some recent stuff from the people at AquaBiome, it is totally plausible that pathogenic bacteria like uronema marinum is already existing in our tanks where it is controlled by predation and competition by microfauna. And by extension when we take biological filtration media from our existing tanks we are bringing that to our quarantine tanks where it no longer has predation and competition it can multiply and take advantage of a stressed fish. Just thinking out loud.

 

[civics14]

According to Randy Holmes Farley, nitrite is not toxic to marine fish like it is to freshwater fish. The great amount of chlorine present in seawater outcompetes nitrite in the uptake mechanisms of the fish. Here is the article.

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium

After seeing some recent stuff from the people at AquaBiome, it is totally plausible that pathogenic bacteria like uronema marinum is already existing in our tanks where it is controlled by predation and competition by microfauna. And by extension when we take biological filtration media from our existing tanks we are bringing that to our quarantine tanks where it no longer has predation and competition it can multiply and take advantage of a stressed fish. Just thinking out loud.

That is good to know, but I didn’t see any signs of uronema. Else I would have treated it. I pretreated my anthias because I know they are prone to it but didn’t think to treat the angels and clown. Ugh. I swear, this hobby.