Who has given up Aquavitro Salinity? WHY?
- Thread starter ralph atl
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That was my hunch too... I guess somebody with a little Petsmart pump in a trash can might not get a quick mix in under 8 hours. Sometimes I forget that not everybody does things as thoroughly as we do. I gotta remember that there are actually SW tanks out there that people aren't obsessive about.
888-Seachem for phone support.
Back in the day, new salt water would often test positive for ammonia, hence the need to age it. I haven't tested new salt water for ammonia in ... forever, but I daresay nowadays this is not an issue. But that's probably where the advice to age it well came from.
Over recent years (ie the last 10-11 or so) I've used newly mixed water from a variety of different salt brand with no issue - as long as it was dissolved and the specific gravity checked out, it was fine.
Jenn
Jenn
Back in the day, new salt water would often test positive for ammonia, hence the need to age it. I haven't tested new salt water for ammonia in ... forever, but I daresay nowadays this is not an issue. But that's probably where the advice to age it well came from.
Over recent years (ie the last 10-11 or so) I've used newly mixed water from a variety of different salt brand with no issue - as long as it was dissolved and the specific gravity checked out, it was fine.
Jenn
Jenn
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Not sure I understand this. How is it different mixing outside the system than it mixing in the main system where mixing is also taking place?Seachem;640134 wrote: Alright, we are finally going to chime in on this thread and we apologize for taking so long.
First and foremost, if anyone ever has trouble with any of our products, please don't hesitate to call or email us regarding the issue. We take these things very seriously and sometimes do not come across these posts for a while, which makes it hard to address the issues at hand. We want our customers to be 100% satisfied and will do everything in our power to make that happen. This is not only our job, but also our passion.
As for the Salinity, it is a little disconcerting that so many of you are having difficulty with the salt. This is the highest quality salt on the market right now and we go to great lengths to achieve that.
The Salinity is not an out sourced salt like other salts on the market, including our Reef and Marine Salts. We batch Salinity right here in our facility in GA in very small batches. This allows for us to have much greater quality control over the salt itself. The elements used in this salt are anhydrous materials, meaning they do not contain unneeded water molecules that can cause variance in the weight of the compound. This is what accounts for its high concentration and the burn that some of you may have experienced as the materials can produce quite a bit of heat when they react with water. Once we have tested the salt in our labs and it meets our standards, we then send it to an EPA registered lab where it gets tested with high quality laboratory grade testing equipment. Those results are printed on a label for each batch and sent back to our facility. Not only do we include the exact numbers that you will find in each bucket, we have also include average numbers from different oceans around the world, in addition to a maximum and a minimum that surround those ocean values. The numbers in each bucket will never fall outside of that min/max range. Furthermore, those numbers are guaranteed at a SALINITY of 35ppt or SG of 1.026, which is determined with a laboratory-grade digital refractometer.
When mixing this salt, we have found that 24 hours or less is ideal. The longer you let the salt mix, the more C02 it will take on and the more precipitation you will encounter. C02 --> water --> carbonic acid --> bicarbonates/carbonates. Mixing the salt for more than 24 hours can cause a decrease in alkalinity and pH, resulting in a precipitation of calcium and carbonates. When we mix it here at Seachem, we mix it in 50 gallon drums with one powerhead at room temperature (22-25 degrees Centigrade). There is no need to use a heater. Typically the water is clear within a few hours but sometimes we have to use it within an hour of mixing, when it is still cloudy. This cloudiness clears rapidly once introduced to the tank, generally within 30 minutes, and will not cause any harm to the inhabitants. Furthermore, cloudiness seems to persist more with buckets that have calcium and alkalinity levels on the higher end of the range. This is really inevitable when you have such high levels of those particular components.
The odor that may be experienced is quite normal. Again, because of the anhydrous materials used in Salinity, it can take on a little moisture from the atmosphere, causing an unpleasant odor not evident in other salts that use hydrous components. Not only that, but we also match the sulfate content of natural sea water, which means we add more sulfates than other salts, giving it an unusual odor.
The residue that is left in the container is a direct result of 1. the highly concentrated materials used in the salt, 2. letting it mix too long 3. a natural occurrence when mixing a high quality salt. We do an acid wash on our buckets about once a month. This can be done at home simply using Acid Buffer and water. Your bucket will be clean instantly and easily.
Those of you that have mentioned losing colonies in your reef tank, I'm terribly sorry to hear that. It is hard to say exactly what may have gone wrong in that instance. Unfortunately, those things can happen for unknown reasons when dealing with a reef tank. I hope that this information has been helpful to you all and please, don't ever hesitate to give us a call when something is wrong. Even when you are getting low numbers on salt, whichever salt of ours that may be, call us and tell us about it and we will look into it. We want you to be successful in the hobby and would never produce a product that would intentionally harm your animals.
Sorry for such a long, elaborate post, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible and hopefully answer all of your questions. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns. Thanks!
Edit:
I don't think so. I would like to understand how you derived at that.
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Seachem;640134 wrote: Alright, we are finally going to chime in on this thread and we apologize for taking so long.
First and foremost, if anyone ever has trouble with any of our products, please don't hesitate to call or email us regarding the issue. We take these things very seriously and sometimes do not come across these posts for a while, which makes it hard to address the issues at hand. We want our customers to be 100% satisfied and will do everything in our power to make that happen. This is not only our job, but also our passion.
As for the Salinity, it is a little disconcerting that so many of you are having difficulty with the salt. This is the highest quality salt on the market right now and we go to great lengths to achieve that.
The Salinity is not an out sourced salt like other salts on the market, including our Reef and Marine Salts. We batch Salinity right here in our facility in GA in very small batches. This allows for us to have much greater quality control over the salt itself. The elements used in this salt are anhydrous materials, meaning they do not contain unneeded water molecules that can cause variance in the weight of the compound. This is what accounts for its high concentration and the burn that some of you may have experienced as the materials can produce quite a bit of heat when they react with water. Once we have tested the salt in our labs and it meets our standards, we then send it to an EPA registered lab where it gets tested with high quality laboratory grade testing equipment. Those results are printed on a label for each batch and sent back to our facility. Not only do we include the exact numbers that you will find in each bucket, we have also include average numbers from different oceans around the world, in addition to a maximum and a minimum that surround those ocean values. The numbers in each bucket will never fall outside of that min/max range. Furthermore, those numbers are guaranteed at a SALINITY of 35ppt or SG of 1.026, which is determined with a laboratory-grade digital refractometer.
When mixing this salt, we have found that 24 hours or less is ideal. The longer you let the salt mix, the more C02 it will take on and the more precipitation you will encounter. C02 --> water --> carbonic acid --> bicarbonates/carbonates. Mixing the salt for more than 24 hours can cause a decrease in alkalinity and pH, resulting in a precipitation of calcium and carbonates. When we mix it here at Seachem, we mix it in 50 gallon drums with one powerhead at room temperature (22-25 degrees Centigrade). There is no need to use a heater. </em> Typically the water is clear within a few hours but sometimes we have to use it within an hour of mixing, when it is still cloudy. This cloudiness clears rapidly once introduced to the tank, generally within 30 minutes, and will not cause any harm to the inhabitants. Furthermore, cloudiness seems to persist more with buckets that have calcium and alkalinity levels on the higher end of the range. This is really inevitable when you have such high levels of those particular components.
The odor that may be experienced is quite normal. Again, because of the anhydrous materials used in Salinity, it can take on a little moisture from the atmosphere, causing an unpleasant odor not evident in other salts that use hydrous components. Not only that, but we also match the sulfate content of natural sea water, which means we add more sulfates than other salts, giving it an unusual odor.
The residue that is left in the container is a direct result of 1. the highly concentrated materials used in the salt, 2. letting it mix too long 3. a natural occurrence when mixing a high quality salt. We do an acid wash on our buckets about once a month. This can be done at home simply using Acid Buffer and water. Your bucket will be clean instantly and easily.
Those of you that have mentioned losing colonies in your reef tank, I'm terribly sorry to hear that. It is hard to say exactly what may have gone wrong in that instance. Unfortunately, those things can happen for unknown reasons when dealing with a reef tank. I hope that this information has been helpful to you all and please, don't ever hesitate to give us a call when something is wrong. Even when you are getting low numbers on salt, whichever salt of ours that may be, call us and tell us about it and we will look into it. We want you to be successful in the hobby and would never produce a product that would intentionally harm your animals.
Sorry for such a long, elaborate post, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible and hopefully answer all of your questions. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns. Thanks!
For newbies ,This reference was for mixing purposes only the water still needs to be as close to the system temp as possible before adding to the system
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Well, Thanks Seachem (I missed your name, sorry) for your thorough response. It is very appreciated.
I used Seachem Reef for years, and promoted it, too....Due to my inability of finding it near me, and the high borate levels (fwiw, I don't know what it does or doesn't do to livestock), I wanted a switch. After some lengthy investigations, as previous stated, I went with IO, but that was terrible for my system. I sold that bucket after one water change, lol.
I had heard some great things & I've heard some not so great things (hence the thread & poll) about Salinity.
After 2, 30% water changes, I feel confident in this product, and I am a Salinity user. I have completed numerous tests (Elos & DD Merck), and my saltwater mix and my tank water are all within NSW parems.
Last test I did of my tank I got: 1400mg, 420calcium, & 8.5 Alk.
Thanks again!
I used Seachem Reef for years, and promoted it, too....Due to my inability of finding it near me, and the high borate levels (fwiw, I don't know what it does or doesn't do to livestock), I wanted a switch. After some lengthy investigations, as previous stated, I went with IO, but that was terrible for my system. I sold that bucket after one water change, lol.
I had heard some great things & I've heard some not so great things (hence the thread & poll) about Salinity.
After 2, 30% water changes, I feel confident in this product, and I am a Salinity user. I have completed numerous tests (Elos & DD Merck), and my saltwater mix and my tank water are all within NSW parems.
Last test I did of my tank I got: 1400mg, 420calcium, & 8.5 Alk.
Thanks again!
thank you seachem for your reply, now I have to go back and re-read the bucket as I have always premixed my salt at least 24 hours in advance with 48-72 hours the norm. I have 35 gallons I mixed last sunday with the intent to WC on tuesday or wednesday but here it is thursday and still have not had time. are telling me I need to dump and waste this barrel of mix? I am one of those who lost several good sized colonies of zoa's along with a good sized cabage leather and waving finger leather. I will say that after the last WC with the new bucket and paying even closer attention to alk and ph levels I am seeing zoa polyps coming back on all colonies I thought had died out and both leathers are showing signs of life.
would it help if I mixed an additional 5 gallons in the bucket that has been sitting since sunday would that help with the CO2 levels?
would it help if I mixed an additional 5 gallons in the bucket that has been sitting since sunday would that help with the CO2 levels?
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grouper therapy;640267 said:Not sure I understand this. How is it different mixing outside the system than it mixing in the main system where mixing is also taking place?
Let me try that ? again
Once mixed and dissolved what is the difference between the salt water circulating in the mixing barrel and it mixing in the main system? How does that affect co2 exchange and precipitation?
This question is for any of you that understands the statement made by Seachem.
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grouper therapy;640402 wrote:grouper therapy;640267 said:Not sure I understand this. How is it different mixing outside the system than it mixing in the main system where mixing is also taking place?
Let me try that ? again
Once mixed and dissolved what is the difference between the salt water circulating in the mixing barrel and it mixing in the main system? How does that affect co2 exchange and precipitation?
This question is for any of you that understands the statement made by Seachem.
Just spitballing, but there is theoreticallyno metabolic life in mixing barrels. Just water mixing. Nothing consuming O2 and CO2 and nothing creating O2 and CO2. The biomechanical pathways should affect it some, I would anticipate., But, like I said, Im just spitballing.
Thanks for all the feedback!
I will try to address each of your questions as they were posed.
mojo,
888-seachem (Thanks Jenn!)/ support @seachem.com
grouper therapy,
jmaneyapanda is correct. Inside an aquarium filled with life, there is a whole lot of biological activity going on to offset any precipitation effects caused by CO2. Not only that, but your corals and coralline algae are utilizing a lot of the carbonates and bicarbonates in the water. Make sense?
wmboots,
I do not think that you should dump the water. I would recommend running a round of tests (Ca, Mg, pH, Alk) on the mix to see where your levels are and adjust them as needed. Once adjusted, I do not see any issues with using the water, but I would use it immediately and not let it sit any longer.
I will try to address each of your questions as they were posed.
mojo,
888-seachem (Thanks Jenn!)/ support @seachem.com
grouper therapy,
jmaneyapanda is correct. Inside an aquarium filled with life, there is a whole lot of biological activity going on to offset any precipitation effects caused by CO2. Not only that, but your corals and coralline algae are utilizing a lot of the carbonates and bicarbonates in the water. Make sense?
wmboots,
I do not think that you should dump the water. I would recommend running a round of tests (Ca, Mg, pH, Alk) on the mix to see where your levels are and adjust them as needed. Once adjusted, I do not see any issues with using the water, but I would use it immediately and not let it sit any longer.
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I understand that the life inside the system is constantly using the carbonate and bicarbonate but if the Co2 level is high enough to cause noticeable precipitation I don't see how the system could handle that large of an offset, especially a fairly young system.
typically, when you're at the brink, the balance between precipitation and not is a very thin line..
I've seen supersaturated solutions precipitate if a single sugar crystal is dropped in (it literally triggers a snowfall of crystals out of solution)
I would imagine it is the same when CO2 is building up in the mixing solution (not difficult for 'biological activity' to pull it back into check)
I've seen supersaturated solutions precipitate if a single sugar crystal is dropped in (it literally triggers a snowfall of crystals out of solution)
I would imagine it is the same when CO2 is building up in the mixing solution (not difficult for 'biological activity' to pull it back into check)
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If the salt mix is pulling in that volume of co2 I think one might want to check co2 levels in the room! And if the system can pull it down that much is there not a chance of shocking it with those higher levels ? I have never experienced this with any of the other salts so it is new info for me. How is it beneficial for the system to have these level?
Man, this thread has gotten so technical. I just mix Salinity with RODI to an SG of 1.025. Sometimes I use it within a few hours, and sometimes it sits for a week or more in my Brute. Then I put it in my tank, no problem. Glad I have not had to deal with this end of it. Got enough to worry about with a reef as it is.
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That is what I couldn't understand, I have let all types of salt mix for days and weeks without issue. I have never heard of a precipitation problem while mixing:confused2:
The reason for not having that issue with any other salt is because there is no other salt on the market that uses such high quality components. The anhydrous (dry) elements used in Salinity is another reason for the precipitation that occurs when mixing.
No idea as to what I did differently with this past water change, but man the water was cloudy. I added a cup full of salt every 30 mins.
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Was your powerhead unplugged again lmao
