Let the games... BEGIN!!

Yeah- Josh is right. Everything he said is true.

I have a Fluval Sea Plastic in-tank SG device

I do not have a refractometer.

And I really wish I DID know what caused the initial spike. I suspect something in the new rock didn't like my water params and started to die?

I do have some GSP, but it's turning white...
 
OceanDeep85;970230 wrote: Yeah- Josh is right. Everything he said is true.

I have a Fluval Sea Plastic in-tank SG device

I do not have a refractometer.

And I really wish I DID know what caused the initial spike. I suspect something in the new rock didn't like my water params and started to die?

I do have some GSP, but it's turning white...

It just seems that if you were experiencing an actual ammonia spike, it would be cycling through by now
 
Yeah, so, I have no clue what the heck is going on. Maybe someone in Sandy Springs/Dunwoody area has a test kit I can borrow
 
JDavid;970233 wrote: It just seems that if you were experiencing an actual ammonia spike, it would be cycling through by now

Unless something was preventing the cycle from completing.

Overdosing Stability might be impeding it.

Fluval In-tank device... hmmm ok. Had to google that. Do you leave it in the tank? Does it have any algae on/in it? (If you leave it in the tank...)

Tell me how you make up new saltwater, and your top off frequency and procedure.

The reason I'm asking: http://www.reef2reef.com/blog/refractometers-or-hydrometers-why-the-latter-should-contain-a-warning/">http://www.reef2reef.com/blog/refractometers-or-hydrometers-why-the-latter-should-contain-a-warning/</a>

This article just happens to involve the device you're using, and I believe you said you keep your SG at 1.025 on that device. Assuming the device functions as the one in the article does, you are probably significantly higher than that, and at worst, if that device is faulty, you could be much higher (or even much lower).

I quit trusting hydrometers about 14 years ago. At best, they're 'close enough' but at worst they can lead you down the garden path to big problems.

If you take your water to the LFS or another hobbyist have them check that too - using a calibrated refractometer.

What are you using for temperature? Digital or analog?

Here we go, peeling back the layers of the mystery.
 
Declanisadog;968725 wrote: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253493">http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2253493</a>


Best/safest way to kill live rock is to let it sit in the sun for a while.[/QUOTE]

That.. but soak it in bleach water mix over night then rinse well and set in sun...
 
I'll ask again. Why buy live rock in the first place if you (sic) are just going to kill it?

In all my years I've never seen this happen so often until about the last 2 years where it seems to be in vogue.

If you have pests in the rock, deal with the pests. Only a handful of times have I ever seen it necessary to 'kill' rock and at that, it's usually just one problematic rock or a couple, not a whole tank's worth.

If that's too much trouble, go FO and call it a day.

Not singling anyone out, I just see so many people doing stupid things (there, I said it - stupid things) with the best biological medium available.

I agree with Declanisadog - If you really and truly must kill off some rock, put it out in the sun and let it dry. Then rinse it off, and the best thing to do after that is to re-cure it with some healthy live rock in a tub before putting it in a tank, especially one that has livestock in it.

I've rehabbed literally tons of rock that was given to me over the years, that was past the point of no return either from derelict tanks overrun with stuff, or allowed to sit stagnant until all the water evaporated out of the tank or whatever. Dry it out, rinse it off, re-cure it with something live and biologically active.

No boiling, no baking, no chemicals are needed, and as we've seen, doing that stuff can be detrimental.

Make sure it's not sitting where the lawn guy or the bug guy won't spray it with herbicides or pesticides too.

But again - all this wonton destruction of live rock is just counterproductive, and downright hazardous.

Again I'm not taking shots at OceanDeep or anyone else in particular, just making an observation about what has become "trendy" that may not necessarily be smart.

If the rock is overrun, either with pests or algae, then address the cause.

Now that the ship has sailed already for OceanDeep let's see if we can't figure out what happened from the beginning - at least let some learning come from it and maybe it will help somebody else before they get to that point.

Jenn
 
Jenn- apologies. I'm new and exhausted. Forgot the word. It's a Fluval sea hydrometer. No i don't leave it in the tank 24/7

No algae to speak of

I mix water by mixing purified water and instant ocean salt in a sterilized 5 gal bucket
 
Also, Jenn- my apologies that I did a stupid thing, but can you chill a bit? I mean, the point of the thread is that I'm new. I did what I thought was best. My time machine is broken, so sadly I can't go back and undo things. ****.
 
Unfortunately, OceanDeep, you misunderstood me. (And I can take a cuss-out! :lol: )

I said twice I wasn't singling you out, or anyone else. I promise, I wasn't. I apologize if you took it that way in spite of my disclaimers. ;) I'm more ticked that you found bad advice online before you found us - so it's not directed at you, that's directed at (generalization) people who post crappy advice. We were all beginners at... the beginning... so please don't 'hear' that as a criticism of you. And yes, the definition of crappy advice is purely subjective, but based on some of the horrible outcomes we've seen, it can be crappy advice.

Believe me, in nearly 30 years in the hobby and/or trade, there aren't too many mistakes I haven't made (I've never boiled/baked rock but I've made some that were worse than that). So I'm not judging, believe me. I've been in the hobby since trial and error and error and error were the only ways to figure things out.

Friends again? I hope :D (If you knew me personally it might be easier to 'hear' me as I intend - written word can be funky that way.) I'm here to help, or at least, try to. Your profile says you like hockey so we MUST get along!

I knew you were referring to a hydrometer, I just hadn't seen that particular brand before - I didn't carry much Hagen stuff. I was curious as to whether it's one that you leave in the tank, or do you remove it and rinse it in fresh (tap) water after each use. That can make a difference. There are also a couple of different kinds of hydrometer - there's the 'box' type -what you have, and there is a floating type that usually has a thermometer in it also.

What I'm driving at with my questions, is that it's possible that either you, or the tank that the newer rock came from, has or had a salinity issue. One might have been significantly higher or lower than the other, causing some die-off in the rock when it was moved from one tank to the other. That might have resulted in the spike. Also having the rock out and drying for too long in transport, may have caused some die off. That's why I asked those questions, trying to find a reason why you had the problem in the first place (and in discovering that, help you prevent it from happening again).

We will probably never know the specific gravity of the tank the rock came from unless you're still in touch with the seller and the tank is still running - but in an effort to at least come up with a theory - making sure your device is accurate can rule YOUR specific gravity in or out as a possible cause of current and future issues.

I'm pulling from experience here. Over the years I've learned not to overlook even the most obvious detail or ask the most elementary question because sometimes it's that kind of stuff we assume is OK, isn't. So it's not a shot at somebody's knowledge or smarts - sometimes it's the basic stuff that goes wrong.
 
It's all good. Just thought I had to defend myself a little.

Also- I wash out the hydro with tap after each usage.

My Damsels are out swimming around happily and eating like pigs for the first time in a week this evening.. Even my Golden which always hides.
 
You need to have someone with a refractometer take a sharpie and draw a line on your hydrometer where 1.025 (or 1.024, or 1.026, or whatever you're aiming for) actually is. You'd be surprised how far off that can be. I have several hydrometers, and the results vary up to 0.005 on them, but, each one reads consistently!!
 
Well, one thing at a time.. I already have a fortune to spend on a larger tabk, new filter, Uv light, skimmer, appropriate overhead lighting for corals... Etc. haha Everyone seems happy at the moment. No signs of ammonia stress. I'll test again before I go to bed tonight.
 
Most LFS should be able to test all of that for little to no charge, or if somebody lives near you they can. I would but I'm in Canton - a bit of a hike.

And again, not trying to sound preachy - but it's an expensive hobby. It's more expensive when costly errors happen. Like the article I posted about the hydrometer vs refractometer says, people spend hundreds and even thousands on their tanks but skimp on what is arguably the most important testing equipment in the hobby: A refractometer.

I realize folks need to budget and funds are limited for most of us. My suggestion to anyone and everyone is to prioritize, research and buy it once - whatever it is.

I still have salvage boxes of crap in my attic that are a testament to that. It's well worth waiting to save up to buy the right item one time, than to buy something crappy in a hurry only to end up buying what should have been bought in the first place, later on.

If you're successful in this hobby and you only learn one thing from it, it's patience :)

Jenn
 
JennM;970372 wrote: Most LFS should be able to test all of that for little to no charge, or if somebody lives near you they can. I would but I'm in Canton - a bit of a hike.

And again, not trying to sound preachy - but it's an expensive hobby. It's more expensive when costly errors happen. Like the article I posted about the hydrometer vs refractometer says, people spend hundreds and even thousands on their tanks but skimp on what is arguably the most important testing equipment in the hobby: A refractometer.

I realize folks need to budget and funds are limited for most of us. My suggestion to anyone and everyone is to prioritize, research and buy it once - whatever it is.

I still have salvage boxes of crap in my attic that are a testament to that. It's well worth waiting to save up to buy the right item one time, than to buy something crappy in a hurry only to end up buying what should have been bought in the first place, later on.

If you're successful in this hobby and you only learn one thing from it, it's patience :)

Jenn

Truth. I have spent literally thousands, and have a whole room full of stuff that I will not ever see the money that I invested back from nor have any use for. In the end, I've got $300 in my light, $200 in my sump, $300 in my stand, $150 in my tank, $75 for the controller, a RO skimmer worth a little over $100 that was gifted, $50 in my return pump, and maybe another $100 in stuff I will actually use on my long-term build (reactor etc)

It's all quality stuff. Custom stand, MRC sump, kessil lighting, reef octopus skimmer.. Sure, there's better out there, but this stuff is good stuff. Point being that's a little over $1000, and probably less than half the cost had I bought everything new.. And I still need some more stuff to complete it. Now triple that amount, if not more, and that's what I've spent in less than 2 years crap that I upgraded, stuff I impulse bought, and livestock that I didn't have the skill level to keep alive. Sounds crappy, but it's the truth.

What I hate to see is somebody scared away from a great hobby. I was told all of this, and did I listen? Nope. Because all I cared about was getting the fish and coral. That is by far my biggest flaw that I had starting out.

I've offered for Dave to borrow a dual T5 to try to keep alive the corals that he already had, or a complete biocube 29 with fresh bulbs and a stand, and most of the biocube line of accessories (for free on top of the purchase) for $150. I would throw in the rock he needs and other stuff too. That's hundreds less than what I invested. And it's in incredible shape, both the stand and tank. I did so knowing that it will be a temporary thing, like training wheels. None of us stick with the biocube forever, but it's been a good thing for me up until now.

You're limited on what you can keep in that. Small fish, not too many, no difficult corals. But it's something to get started with. Is it the only $150 you will spend in the hobby? Heck no. I spent that much on coral tonight. Take your time, think about what's best for you. Whatever you come up with I'll support that. But all these folks just want to steer you in the right direction. It does seem like an elitist frame of mind at times, but really it's not. It's just an expensive hobby.
 
Thanks, Josh. I always appreciate your input.. Man. Honest. You know that. I appreciate everyone else's too... but sometimes I'm just like FUDGE IT!!! Haha. I'm just gonna make the most out of things until I can move up to the 40gal breeder setup i eventually want. But to do that, I know I need to go with the deal we talked about a while back. I'm ok with training wheels. I want to be good at this. Like, really good.
 
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